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Bank tells customers to disable updates and not upgrade to iOS 16

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Re: Bank tells customers to disable updates and not upgrade to iOS 16

#271

Post by joshmanders »

svnpenn wrote: post #235
KerrAvon wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the /s? Three months is a _very_ long time in software. This isn’t retooling physical metal for a new car model year; it’s minor software tweaks at best. Most developers don’t actually need to do anything.

> Three months is a _very_ long time in software No, its not. For example, I use an open source app called fd: https://github.com/sharkdp/fd I have not updated it since 2020. Yeah, new versions are available, but the old one works fine, so no need to even upgrade. You shouldn't have to get every single version of software just because its available.

What exactly is the point of all these releases if you don't upgrade?

Do you think Apple just releases new versions of iOS with API changes to keep developers shipping new versions or something?

I don't understand this mentality that just because v1.6.3 is available you don't HAVE to upgrade from v1.2.1.

There's obviously new bug fixes and features available to you.

The only reason I would say not to upgrade is because your device doesn't support the new version and in that case you CANT upgrade.

Re: Bank tells customers to disable updates and not upgrade to iOS 16

#272

Post by scarface74 »

amelius wrote: post #270
scarface74 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and Microsoft has constantly paid the cost by not being able to move as fast and having security issues because of some long forgotten piece of legacy code. Apple was able to have basically the same core OS run on phones, tablets, watches, set top boxes and monitors (yes the latest Apple display runs a version of iOS on an iPhone 11 era chip with 64GB RAM). Back as early as 2005 there were more than half a dozen…

> and having security issues Security fixes should always be backported, because there will always be people stuck at a version of the OS for one reason or the other (it is guaranteed if you serve millions of people). Blaming users for not upgrading, or forcing developers to upgrade is NOT how it should be done.

So should Apple have kept compatibility with 32 bit apps? PPC apps? 68K apps?

Apple does release security fixes and released one for the 2012 circa iPhone 5S last September. But once it dropped support for all 32 bit apps, it didn’t have to carry it forward to new Macs and was able to remove support from the processor itself.

Re: Bank tells customers to disable updates and not upgrade to iOS 16

#273

Post by svnpenn »

joshmanders wrote: post #271
svnpenn wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Three months is a _very_ long time in software No, its not. For example, I use an open source app called fd: https://github.com/sharkdp/fd I have not updated it since 2020. Yeah, new versions are available, but the old one works fine, so no need to even upgrade. You shouldn't have to get every single version of software just because its available.

What exactly is the point of all these releases if you don't upgrade? Do you think Apple just releases new versions of iOS with API changes to keep developers shipping new versions or something? I don't understand this mentality that just because v1.6.3 is available you don't HAVE to upgrade from v1.2.1. There's obviously new bug fixes and features available to you. The only reason I would say not to upgrade is becau…

Right, but since when does Apple (or any company) get to dicate what versions of software that I use? Granted in some cases, forced upgrades are a thing. But I am a human being with agency, I can make my own decisions on what to run on my own computer/devices.

Re: Bank tells customers to disable updates and not upgrade to iOS 16

#274

Post by tialaramex »

dehrmann wrote: post #234
tialaramex wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd definitely have gone to banks are terrible at IT rather than rich people. I am not a rich person, although I'm comfortable, but several of my banks are terrible at IT. Like "We are upgrading our web site so it won't be available until Tuesday" level bad at IT. Note that wasn't just "Some services won't be available", the whole web site was out of action for most of a day. It's disappointing but understandable if…

> We are upgrading our web site so it won't be available until Tuesday I envy this sometimes. It takes a lot more work to evolve a system with zero downtime.

Maybe go work for a bank? I think they pay pretty well too (because the work is boring)

Re: Bank tells customers to disable updates and not upgrade to iOS 16

#275

Post by lampington »

traceroute66 wrote: post #269
Cederfjard wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, that’s insightful. What’s an example of one of these banks?

> What’s an example of one of these banks? C. Hoare & Co. [1] Their unlimited liability and the reasoning behind it is briefly discussed in a blog post by one of their senior partners[2]. [1] https://www.hoaresbank.co.uk/ [2] https://www.hoaresbank.co.uk/The_Special_Dynamics_of_a_Famil...

I've always wanted to get an account with them because of a throwaway line in a Patrick O'brien book:

> 'Mr Babbington,' he said, suddenly stopping in his up and down. 'Take your hands out of your pockets. When did you last write home?' Mr Babbington was at an age when almost any question evokes a guilty response, and this was, in fact, a valid accusation. He reddened, and said, 'I don't know, sir.' 'Think, sir, think,' said Jack, his good-tempered face clouding unexpectedly...'Never mind. Write a handsome letter. Two pages at least. And send it in to me with your daily workings tomorrow. Give your father my compliments and tell him my bankers are Hoares.' For Jack, like most other captains, managed the youngsters' parental allowance for them. 'Hoares,' he repeated absently once or twice, 'my bankers are Hoares,' and a strangled ugly crowing noise made him turn. Young Ricketts was clinging to the fall of the main burton-tackle in an attempt to control himself, but without much success.

Re: Bank tells customers to disable updates and not upgrade to iOS 16

#276

Post by tialaramex »

Thlom wrote: post #257
tialaramex wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd definitely have gone to banks are terrible at IT rather than rich people. I am not a rich person, although I'm comfortable, but several of my banks are terrible at IT. Like "We are upgrading our web site so it won't be available until Tuesday" level bad at IT. Note that wasn't just "Some services won't be available", the whole web site was out of action for most of a day. It's disappointing but understandable if…

Never had any problem like this. I’ve essentially been doing all my banking online for as long as I’ve had any banking to do. So 20+ years or so. Can’t really remember any significant downtime or problems. Biggest problem I’ve had with a bank tech-wise is that my current bank refuses to support Apple Pay. Considering switching banks because of this.

I've never had this problem with my good bank (First Direct) but I had this problem with a bank I use for some routine financial transactions (Santander, currently advertised by celebrities Ant & Dec for some reason) and also with my safe bank (NS&I, a bank owned by my country and thus "safe" in the sense that if it's bankrupt so is my country and therefore that's the least of my problems)

Maybe every other bank is better? I doubt it. For me one bank being unavailable is a mild inconvenience (it so happened I wanted to use Santander to check some records, but most days I wouldn't have noticed) but most people only have one bank, so it being out of action is really problematic, and we live in an era when "you could visit a physical branch" might as well be "You could fly to the moon" for all the practical good it does normal customers.

Re: Bank tells customers to disable updates and not upgrade to iOS 16

#277

Post by ollieglass »

jl6 wrote: post #60

What I find really amazing is that we have here an incredibly elite service that the vast majority of people will never be able to afford, and yet its elite clients are dependent on essentially the same mobile devices that everyone else is. You can spend ~$2k on a phone, and it will be the best phone you can buy. There's no $20k phone that will be any better. It's like flying in first class and then having to queue u…

Reminds me of this Andy Warhol quote:

"What's great about this country is America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest. You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola, and you can know that the President drinks Coke, Liz Taylor drinks Coke, and just think, you can drink Coke, too. A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking. All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good"

Re: Bank tells customers to disable updates and not upgrade to iOS 16

#278

Post by mpclark »

d0mine wrote: post #263
rco8786 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s quite a jump there. One bank is bad at maintaining their app all the way to a blanket statement about rich people and technology.

We could say not just banks for rich people but most companies where software is not a product (money-generating part) are bad at IT (general trend: cost-centers are neglected). The IT Crowd TV series are representative.

In a previous life I banked with Coutts. They were very pro online banking and security very early on. From the mid nineties to early noughties I was handling my account online and was given a physical securid token (Remember them? Like a thick credit card with an LCD display that generated a new OTP every 60 seconds) to deal with the login. But then they were absorbed into NatWest, and I expect their approach to IT changed.

Re: Bank tells customers to disable updates and not upgrade to iOS 16

#279

Post by kitsunesoba »

noahtallen wrote: post #255
Bilal_io wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not an iOS dev, but is it possible that banking apps (and I admit they're slow at adapting) depend on certain APIs that have changed, or Apple deciding to enforce a use of a specific API for a specific type of apps? I am asking to learn.

It’s definitely possible. But iOS deprecated APIs, iirc, it doesn’t just delete them. (At least that’s what I remember from iOS dev four years ago.) I conjecture that the bank didn’t bother to test the app on a new version of iOS until this week, found a major bug, and knew they couldn’t fix it fast enough. But they could have tested three months ago when the beta came out, and any major issues (like using an old API…

With a few exceptions (mainly where hooking into the kernel is concerned), deprecated iOS/macOS APIs tend to hang around for many years after deprecation.

If I coax a random FOSS Mac app project from the early to mid 2000s into compiling on modern macOS there’s usually deprecation warnings left and right, with many of the deprecations having happened in OS X 10.2-10.6 (well over a decade ago), but it’ll still work fine.

So devs usually have plenty of chance to move things over. The grace period just isn’t indefinite like it is with e.g. Windows — sometimes the deprecated APIs are removed 5-6 releases down the road and so it’s a good idea to move off of them sooner than later.

Re: Bank tells customers to disable updates and not upgrade to iOS 16

#280

Post by traceroute66 »

lampington wrote: post #275
traceroute66 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What’s an example of one of these banks? C. Hoare & Co. [1] Their unlimited liability and the reasoning behind it is briefly discussed in a blog post by one of their senior partners[2]. [1] https://www.hoaresbank.co.uk/ [2] https://www.hoaresbank.co.uk/The_Special_Dynamics_of_a_Famil...

I've always wanted to get an account with them because of a throwaway line in a Patrick O'brien book: > 'Mr Babbington,' he said, suddenly stopping in his up and down. 'Take your hands out of your pockets. When did you last write home?' Mr Babbington was at an age when almost any question evokes a guilty response, and this was, in fact, a valid accusation. He reddened, and said, 'I don't know, sir.' 'Think, sir, thin…

Have had the same thought myself on occasions.

One take I've heard on that, whether or not its true I don't know, is that it is a tongue-in-cheek reference to one of the very early generation of Hoares, one of whom earnt himself the nickname "naughty" (Richard "Naughty" Hoare).

Allegedly he was no stranger to, shall we say, a particularly extravagant lifestyle.

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