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Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

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Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Florida's bill which prevents gay and lesbian teachers discussing their partners, for one. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/florida-don-t-say-gay-bill-des...

There are many cases of not being allowed to say certain things as an employee or representative of an entity but I don't consider them infringements on "free speech" in general. I'm sure after work these teachers can say whatever they like.

So it's okay that teachers are allowed to discuss their heterosexual partners but not homosexual? And you consider this not to be a violation of free speech?

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or to be blocked from being able to say it out loud Proponents of hate speech laws and their silent enablers would be one answer. Certainly not the only one. > I think what you mean is that people are calling for internet platforms to kick out certain groups. This is in no way a call against freedom of speech. You keep telling yourself self that. Especially when social values will change again as they always do and…

It's troubling that you're unable to see the difference between restricting hate speech and protecting marginalized people so they can participate equitably in society.

I see parallels to the 2A movement -- laser focus on the part they like without recognition that other factors are at play as well.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not heard any group calling for free speech to be blocked. Who is calling for people to be arrested for what they say? Or to be blocked from being able to say it out loud? I think what you mean is that people are calling for internet platforms to kick out certain groups. This is in no way a call against freedom of speech. I am not sure why people suddenly believe that being for 'free speech' means that other p…

There is an ongoing campaign to get a legal forum completely removed from the internet. A twitch and twitter mob managed to pressure parts of internet infrastructure like Cloudflare and hCaptcha to drop them mere days after the campaign began. Even Archive.org reneged on their core mission and have removed all records. Archive.today is now under intense pressure to do the same because they still have a record of the…

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Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#315
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which laws have passed that restrict speech?

Two examples that come to mind: "In a Blow to Free Speech, Texas’ Social Media Law Allowed to Proceed Pending Appeal"[1] "A federal judge blocks part of Florida's 'STOP WOKE' Act on the grounds it violates business free speech rights" [2] [1] - https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/05/blow-free-speech-texas... [2] - https://news.wfsu.org/state-news/2022-08-18/a-federal-judge-...

Neither of these restrict speech, and I'm not sure how one could construe the text of the laws toward that conclusion.

The first looks like regulation on social media activities, which is well within the boundaries of government - state or otherwise. Perhaps ill-advised, but "how to regulate the digital town square" is a pretty open and fluid debate, no? I don't see anything in there that says "this kind of speech is banned".

The second[1] looks like a workplace and education regulation, which is again well within the boundaries of things the government is charged with regulating. Honestly the text of the law looks pretty benign to me.

[1] http://laws.flrules.org/2022/72

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still is a virtue and a right in the US. Freedom of speech is not about giving every idea and every person and equal platform to spread their ideas. It's not about forcing others to host/spread ideas they disagree with. I think the internet has given people a warped sense about what freedom of speech is. We have no less freedom of speech now than we did before social media/internet.

I think this line of reasoning, while technically valid, is also what's being used to pervert the idea of freedom of speech. The idea behind the first amendment was that the government was the only entity which could realistically stop someone from saying something without running afoul of other existing legal frameworks when most public discourse was via literal town squares, so by limiting the government's ability…

in germany (since 1995) and austria (apparently only since 2016) having a bank-account is a legal right.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#317

The methodological flaw here is amusingly it’s own fascinating study: using some verbal sophistication proxy as a cognitive ability proxy to correlate political attitudes is arguably the key feature of modern hyper-polarized, Internet-speed news cycle politics. It’s difficult to watch a screen without hearing some version of “most people are stupid”. This is deeply wrong: most people are very smart , but this is diff…

I'm not sure about the policies bit. Sure, on the social front God, Guns, and Gays are powerful motivators to get those people to vote. But economic policies from the same side seem to be mainly about lowering the tax burden of the rich. What am I missing?

I’ve heard a number of plausible theories, but I’d point out that Blue Team’s politicians are damn near as committed as Red Team’s to preventing any of the “wrong people” from getting any money: epsilon politicians on either side are going to budge a nanometer on “the rich get richer” (Pelosi on privileged “insider” trading, Sinema on the carried interest loophole right off the top of my head).

In fairness, Red Team’s politicos are much more bare knuckled / flagrant about their take on kleptocapitalism, but on the ground it’s all more or less boils down to “eat the poor”.

Even things that I can kinda sorta get behind like student loan forgiveness are mostly A) cosmetic and B) benefitting the base. Not so different from some Texan congressman porking in some oil thing or an F35 appropriations boondoggle in the political calculus. I’d rather see student loan forgiveness than a garbage airplane like the F35, but I’d really like to see people with family offices get sent to “Federal Pound Me in The Ass” prison for the roughly always that they rig up the tax and financial system with flagrant fraud and that’s a complete nonstarter on either side of the aisle.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#318
post #55

I grew up in the US being told that freedom of speech was a virtue, something that our country did very well and I always thought that it was a shared value. It's very surprising to me to see that change in such a short span, or possibly it was not as popular or widespread as I thought it was growing up and I just never noticed. Is it the internet that has caused this uptick in the number of people who think free spe…

I'd argue free speech is in a historically relatively good place (from my perspective in the US at least). In recent history within the US, there were times that film was not considered protected speech, comedians were arrested for saying simple swear words, and like a zillion different times protesters and laborers were killed for their speech. Protesters are killed far less often today. Plus, with the internet, people have platforms they haven't had before to reach others. You can get a message out far more effectively.

I'd also be careful not to conflate "people who think free speech is a bad idea" and "people who want limitations on speech."

"Limitations on speech" sounds bad, but that includes things like "child pornography is illegal", "you can't advertise your MLM during my physics lecture so please leave", "you can't spam your cryptocurrency here", and other basic moderation. Being a "free speech absolutist" would require rejecting even thsse limitations.

If you're on Hacker News, you're participating in a very very heavily moderated platform. This is also true of StackExchange. I think HackerNews and StackExchange are better for the strict limitations on speech on their platform. (If you turn "showdead" on, you'll see some pretty horrible comments on HackerNews, sometimes calling for deaths of groups or individuals, that are community-moderated away, i.e. censored.)

I would reject the claim that there's an uptick in people who are against free-speech. I don't see anything to substantiate that. I think instead there are disagreements on where to draw the line. "Free speech" is also a buzzword that is used in bad faith, usually divorced from any serious conversation about free speech, which complicates things.

If anything, I think it's a good sign that more people are educated about free-speech (both in terms of ideals and in terms of legal implications where it's a protected right), about censorship, and are having serious conversations about it.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which laws have passed that restrict speech?

Florida's bill which prevents gay and lesbian teachers discussing their partners, for one. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/florida-don-t-say-gay-bill-des...

I found the law that this (Canadian) article is referencing, and the words "gay" or "homosexual" don't even appear in the text. How does this prevent gay and lesbian teachers from discussing their partners? I see a paragraph that says instruction on sexuality and sexual orientation can't begin before the third grade which seems pretty reasonable. I didn't get that until I was in, I think, fifth grade.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/...

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many cases of not being allowed to say certain things as an employee or representative of an entity but I don't consider them infringements on "free speech" in general. I'm sure after work these teachers can say whatever they like.

So it's okay that teachers are allowed to discuss their heterosexual partners but not homosexual? And you consider this not to be a violation of free speech?

The text of the law doesn't appear to do that. Is there a different law that you are thinking of?

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/...

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