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The Next Chapter for Learning on YouTube

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Re: The Next Chapter for Learning on YouTube

#241

Post by gofreddygo »

klabb3 wrote: post #94
LouisSayers wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of a saying I've heard from Dean Graziosi (sales type guy). "Sell them what they want, give them what they need". I also dislike this whole game where you have to essentially mould yourself into this "mainstream click-baity character", but part of me recognises that if your goal is to sell, then you'd be wise to spend time on presenting your content in a way that is at least initially attention grabbi…

> but part of me recognises that if your goal is to sell , then you'd be wise to spend time on presenting your content in a way that is at least initially attention grabbing. The issue is, I think, exactly that everyone must be at least partially a salesman to get ahead. Is this what we want? Is there a way for YouTube to compensate for clickbaity titles and thumbnails? Are they incentivized to do so? Thinking back a…

Also a good chunk of folks (i know) that are good at what they do, will not be salesy.

Call it misplaced pride or whatever, but they usually feel doing/saying something purely because it helps selling comes across "not pure" or "not in good faith" or not "why I do this".

Eventually they end up justifying with something along the lines of "good product (or person) just sells itself" or end up bitter comparing themselves with someone who sold worse stuff, but sold more to stay long enough in business.

good advertising/sales/marketing (i know they are not the same) strategies have a large upfront cost, which most if not all good-but-failed products/services cannot sustainably pay for.

My hope for the internet was to lower the bar by being accessible to everyone and allowing more indie sellers to prosper. And it did deliver. what i did not see coming was this industry for gaming the system which in turn drowns the true indie voice.

Re: The Next Chapter for Learning on YouTube

#242

Post by AussieWog93 »

klabb3 wrote: post #185
insightcheck wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The issue is, I think, exactly that everyone must be at least partially a salesman to get ahead. Is this what we want?" Regardless of what we as a society want, and even if YouTube never existed, it's the reality that salesmanship is always important to some extent. Persuasive communication is important even outside of business: it's key for academia to get grants, it's important for non-profits to get funding and…

Sales and politics are not avoidable, I agree with that. While a scientist might have to dreadfully deal with salesmanship now and then, it shouldn't be affecting the day to day. We have procedures to isolate these things from core business, so we can focus without the hyper-selfawareness of salesmen. If you have to be constantly getting the most eyeballs, attention, upvotes, in everything you're doing, it will chang…

>While a scientist might have to dreadfully deal with salesmanship now and then, it shouldn't be affecting the day to day.

Scientists spend something like 20-30% of their time begging for grant money.

Worse still, in order to get the grant money, scientists have to abandon the genuine pursuit of knowledge and do some random busywork bullshit that they deep down know will produce nothing of value.

Once they have produced the bullshit research, they then spend another disproportionately large chunk of time convincing their colleagues that their research is actually valuable.

The remainder of their work time is spent pretending that they don't realise that their peers' and colleagues' work is complete bullshit.

Don't get into academia.

Re: The Next Chapter for Learning on YouTube

#243

Post by k12sosse »

OJFord wrote: post #173
HardlyCurious wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is certainly slimy YouTube tactics for attention and clicks, but not all successful YouTubers are doing slimy things. If your videos are genuinely interesting and / or useful, you need to be able to convey that fact to users, before they watch it. It isn't too much to ask. Just imagine a viewer asking you the question, "ok so why should I watch your videos over someone else's?". It is a fair question. And reply…

Matthias Wandel comes to mind as exceptional here - almost 2M subscribers as I recall, a popular 'second channel' too, and way against 'youtube scream face' and similar nonsense. He's done a few 'shorts' since initially saying he didn't (as I don't) see the point, but other than that, standout top of class etc.

Came for the wood gears, stayed for the most efficient way to kill mice

Re: The Next Chapter for Learning on YouTube

#244

Post by Too »

nwienert wrote: post #91
serf wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Click bait isn't different than wearing a funny hat to engage students in class. what are you talking about? a student gets stuck going to class regardless of how goofy the teacher dresses, whereas I feel an extreme sense of revulsion when I click on a YT link with a meme-thumbnail or a clickbait title. your analogy fails since in this instance the 'student' gets to decide whether or not they participate in the cou…

You’re baking in the assumption that goofy hat is 100% correlated with bad content, but I’d say 30% of my YouTube subscriptions do the goofy hat thing (usually just having somewhat baity thumbnails / titles) yet deliver great content. And honestly? I don’t care. The content is good, and if the hat gets them more viewers then all the better.

Good example of clown being educational is ElectroBoom. He constantly keeps "accidentally" electrocuting himself and goofing around. The videos have very crisp editing and baity thumbnails. At the same time a lot of the content is deeply informative and educational.

I'm not sure you can call his series a curriculum, yet I think I learned a lot more from there than from my university classes, despite watching it primarily for the fun and not for learning.

Re: The Next Chapter for Learning on YouTube

#245

Post by zelphirkalt »

mindcrime wrote: post #7

Next year, qualified creators can begin offering free or paid Courses to provide in-depth, structured learning experiences for viewers. Viewers who choose to buy a Course can watch the video ad-free and play it in the background. So you're cloning Udemy? Meh. Not much to be excited about so far. Finally, to help learners apply what they’ve learned, we’re introducing Quizzes — a new way for creators to help viewers te…

Quizzes ... I specifically looked that on up years ago, to be sure to make the plural correctly. It is still quiz. A quiz. Several quiz.

Re: The Next Chapter for Learning on YouTube

#247

Post by karolist »

LouisSayers wrote: post #84
djaychela wrote: post #42

I produce Music Tech-based educational content on YT. It started as a hobby and sideline to my main work (which at the time was classroom teaching of the same content). While I'm no longer working in classrooms (pandemic plus other reasons led to this), I'm still producing content, which I think is of good quality and worthwhile. The issue I have with it is that I refuse to produce attention-grabbing clickbaity title…

This reminds me of a saying I've heard from Dean Graziosi (sales type guy). "Sell them what they want, give them what they need". I also dislike this whole game where you have to essentially mould yourself into this "mainstream click-baity character", but part of me recognises that if your goal is to sell, then you'd be wise to spend time on presenting your content in a way that is at least initially attention grabbi…

Are there any books on sales that would be suited for a typical SWE HN reader, i.e. sans fluff, modern and practical?

Re: The Next Chapter for Learning on YouTube

#248

Post by capybara_2020 »

LouisSayers wrote: post #84
djaychela wrote: post #42

I produce Music Tech-based educational content on YT. It started as a hobby and sideline to my main work (which at the time was classroom teaching of the same content). While I'm no longer working in classrooms (pandemic plus other reasons led to this), I'm still producing content, which I think is of good quality and worthwhile. The issue I have with it is that I refuse to produce attention-grabbing clickbaity title…

This reminds me of a saying I've heard from Dean Graziosi (sales type guy). "Sell them what they want, give them what they need". I also dislike this whole game where you have to essentially mould yourself into this "mainstream click-baity character", but part of me recognises that if your goal is to sell, then you'd be wise to spend time on presenting your content in a way that is at least initially attention grabbi…

From what I have seen this idea of is the problem with a lot of online courses.

The courses that sell seem to be made by great sales men and women. But then the actual course itself is bad.

A lot of courses/content is created by a single person. The chances of them being great sales people and educators at the same time is pretty rare I would imagine.

This goes back to what the original commenter is feeling, the algo is going to work to the benefit of the great sales people. Which in turn leaves the good educators and the learner at a disadvantage.

We need a better way to find great courses/learning content. Social media(including Youtube in this) is not a great way to discover good content.

Re: The Next Chapter for Learning on YouTube

#249

Post by djaychela »

kgc wrote: post #49
djaychela wrote: post #42

I produce Music Tech-based educational content on YT. It started as a hobby and sideline to my main work (which at the time was classroom teaching of the same content). While I'm no longer working in classrooms (pandemic plus other reasons led to this), I'm still producing content, which I think is of good quality and worthwhile. The issue I have with it is that I refuse to produce attention-grabbing clickbaity title…

"Race to the bottom of the brainstem" is a great way to put it.

I can't take credit from that - I believe I heard Tristan Harris say it on the Center for Humane Tech podcast.

Re: The Next Chapter for Learning on YouTube

#250

Post by djaychela »

voski wrote: post #152
djaychela wrote: post #42

I produce Music Tech-based educational content on YT. It started as a hobby and sideline to my main work (which at the time was classroom teaching of the same content). While I'm no longer working in classrooms (pandemic plus other reasons led to this), I'm still producing content, which I think is of good quality and worthwhile. The issue I have with it is that I refuse to produce attention-grabbing clickbaity title…

Hi your content sounds interesting to me. I couldn’t find a YouTube channel named djaychela. Would you mind sharing?

Thanks. It's musictechtuition - https://www.youtube.com/c/musictechtuition
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