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After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

nytimes.com

41–50 of 219 posts

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#41

Out of its three comma endowment, it will pay a settlement of about six hundred student's annual tuition, which is a little less than a quarter of their undergrad population. After a six year smear campaign, sounds like money well spent!

Apparently, Oberlin's President sent out the following email which states their insurance will pay

> Dear Obies,

> Today, Oberlin College and Conservatory initiated payment in full of the $36.59 million judgment in the Gibson’s Bakery case, an amount that represents the awarded damages and interest owed. Please see the college’s public statement below.

> While this outcome is a disappointment, our financial plans for this possibility, which included insurance coverage, mean that this payment will not impact or diminish our academic or student life experience, or require us to draw down Oberlin’s endowment.

> Like me, the majority of the campus was not here at the beginning of this matter in 2016. But it is also true that this case has been difficult for all of us who love this institution and its hometown. I am looking forward to all that is ahead, and remain focused on Oberlin’s core mission of providing a truly excellent liberal arts and musical education.

> Carmen Twillie Ambar > President

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#43
> Carmen Twillie Ambar: archaic chase-and-detain policy regarding suspected shoplifters was the catalyst for the protests.

If you witness a crime you can arrest the criminal. It's basic civics. Something you might find about in an institution of higher learning. Don't know if they have one of those in Oberlin.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#44
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I'm not very keen on pinning blame/monetary responsibility on single individuals/companies to 'prevent/deter' unknown future crimes. We shouldn't be signaling with big punishments bigger than the crimes call for. We should carefully consider the crime based on the individual and how much punishment is appropriate for that individual to compensate the victim/deter that single individual/company from continuin…

Why would we not want to stop others? Why not consider a positive side effect of deterring others? Sorry, what are you saying here does not make any sense to me at all. It seems like that you are suggesting that we could simply not punish people at all for first offense, as long as they can credibly promise that they won’t reoffend. After all, if they won’t reoffend, under what you say, there is no point in punishing…

Why should my punishment be more severe because you want to stop others from doing something in the future? That's a disproportionate amount of punishment for the individual. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not have an additional component to be used to deter others who I have no affiliation with.

Public prosecution is absolutely terrible way to deal with dealing out punishment. Not all individuals are the same, not all crimes are the same, but once you are given a guilty verdict judges are expected to give out sentencing guidelines that match similar tag lines/crimes regardless of circumstances.

Punishment should be more personalized and should be a performance improvement plan based on the individual and how they respond to the effective plan/action.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#45
> The college said then that the bakery’s “archaic chase-and-detain policy regarding suspected shoplifters was the catalyst for the protests.”

IIRC, the employee tried to take a photo of the shoplifter with his phone. The shoplifter took/smashed the phone or something. This makes it much more reasonable for the employee to try to stop the shoplifter from getting away. It wasn't like he tried to cuff the guy off the bat. He started with taking a photo but was thwarted.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#47
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oberlin drove the bakery out of business while knowing full well that the bakery did nothing wrong. The kid that got caught shoplifting plead guilty and he also outright stated that racism was not involved.

This doesn't necessarily go against your point, but I have seen far too many innocent people coerced into pleading guilty to actually believe someone is guilty based on a guilty plea.

This was a civil trial, not criminal. The college never plead guilty. They were found liable. The college had competent legal representation and there was no coercion.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#48
post #14

Is there more to this story? I'm honestly pretty shocked by this. The college basically got into hot water for having its Dean show up at a protest holding a flyer.

Yes, there is much more to the story. This is going to be one sided, but this is a faq from the plantiffs with plenty of examples of what the dean was doing; far far beyond just handing out flyers. https://www.lawlion.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/UPDATED-F...

Some more interesting context from your link:

When the author anonymously interviewed students, he gathered the following responses:

• “I totally have [taken things from a store downtown without paying for it].

I think I’ve stolen from Gibson’s twice. I took a packet of those noodles that come in boxes… It wasn’t expensive and I felt like it. I just preferred not paying for it, but I could have.”

• A female student admitted that she has stolen many things from Gibson’s Bakery and Ben Franklin’s. “I took a wine bottle. I had a large winter jacket and I put the bottle in the lining and I walked right out.” And, “I took pens from Ben Franklin because individually the pens cost $4 and I thought it was a racket.”

• “Probably [I have stolen from downtown] but let me think about it…yeah, no, I do that all the time.” The same student then talked about how they stole a one-hundred-dollar ($100) bottle of wine from Gibson’s Bakery.

• “I have stolen from Gibson’s, Kim’s, IGA. I took some dumb stuff. From Gibson’s I took some steak knives for an avocado that I also stole. I was really drunk and that was really bad.”

• “I think I’ve taken candy and just small shit from Ben Franklin’s and the Oberlin Market.”

• “[I have taken] a few pens from Ben Franklin over the years… they’re hard to resist.”

• One said she’s never paid for Chapstick while at Oberlin for four years.

• The author: “I myself have stolen from the very people I’ve interviewed for this story. I could have paid for the items easily, but I chose to steal them instead.”

This student and/or institutional attitude was supported by the statistics provided from the Oberlin Police Department of thefts at Gibson’s Bakery from January 1, 2011 to November 14, 2016. These statistics show that of the 40 adults arrested for theft during that time period, 33 of those adults (82.5%) were Oberlin College students.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#50
post #7
post #2

“ The message to other colleges is to have the intestinal fortitude to be the adult in the room” That seems to be the most apt conclusion. Being an educational institution should involve more than just indulging the students. It should also challenge them and be measured in their responses to events, even if that means being unpopular with students.

Being an educational institution should involve more than just indulging the students The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE) free-speech rankings seem like a good proxy for this: https://www.thefire.org/research/publications/student-survey...

I can't find the link, but I read recently that FIRE came out against this verdict because they believe it infringes free speech.

I agree the FIRE rankings are a good resource. But it's worth pointing out that FIRE opposes this verdict.

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