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Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

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Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#61

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #57
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in new delhi, india, metro is "actually amazing".... you have mandatory baggage x-ray checking and a physcial patdown, both for men and women EVERYTIME you enter the station so you cant have weapons of any sort. the stations are guarded by trained police (cisf) whole job profile is to only secure highly sensitive operations and they are trained to actually do their job.... you have full CCTV coverage of stations and…

I don't have an issue with tougher policing of the fare with actual doors and police presence but a patdown is kind of ridiculous. I'm afraid people too easily give up their freedom for a tiny increase in safety

nope. a patdown to prevent any concealed weapons is a good thing.... may i ask, what kind of freedoms do you loose if you are 100% sure that in a train station or in a train that no one is carrying a knife or a gun or something lethal?

>tiny increase in safety

yeah, right... guns don't kill people, it is people who kill people. same for cigarettes i suppose.

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#62

Post by googlryas »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #58
googlryas wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see people jump the turnstiles all the time, and they're usually not the type that growl at you. Usually (at least in my area) it is young, teenage or early 20-something brown/black males who blend back into the crowd immediately. I agree the types of people you described are a problem, but they aren't the farejumpers.

lol brown/black males. Isn't that a bit passive aggressive version of racism hidden under "just pointing out what I noticed"? Is that because you are biased that you notice or is it the actual reality?

Please expand on what was racist about my message. Was it where I said that fare jumpers just blended in with the crowd and didn't growl at people, and were not the problem makers that OP was describing?

Was I also sexist in pointing out it is mostly males I see doing it?

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#63

Post by jupp0r »

Ragnarork wrote: post #43
jupp0r wrote: post #28

This has cost the German government 2.5 billion Euros [1]. That’s $1388 per metric ton of CO2. Current direct air capture technology is estimated to cost between $132 and $342 per metric ton [2]. If the goal was to reduce carbon emissions, this was a giant waste of money, even compared to the most expensive forms of carbon reduction. [1] https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.9-euro-ticket-kost... [2] https://www.…

> That’s $655 per metric ton of CO2. Current direct air capture technology is estimated to cost between $132 and $342 per metric ton Ah yes. Let's totally forget about the actual traveling of passengers that this allowed in the first place.

Article was about the carbon emission reductions (titled "Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2"). Nobody is disputing that more people used public transport when it was almost free. My point was that it's really expensive as a means to reduce carbon emissions. It does have other effects that would be desirable. If it was for me, public transportation would be entirely free for everybody. There is evidence that the cost savings in ticket machine and fare enforcement infrastructure would make this especially appealing due to cost savings.

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#64

Post by shafyy »

jupp0r wrote: post #47
shafyy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Direct air capture hasn't been proven to work at scale. And the key thing we need to do is to reduce emissions, which is done exactly by incentives like this. Was the €9 ticket perfect? No, but it was a good first shot, now we have data and can improve. Furthermore, as others have stated, this was not even the primary goal of this program.

Your argument is that we should focus on expensive initiatives that don’t reduce carbon emissions as much as alternatives because you like them personally?

My argument is that we should focus on reducing emissions.

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#65

Post by codyb »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #61
stjohnswarts wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an issue with tougher policing of the fare with actual doors and police presence but a patdown is kind of ridiculous. I'm afraid people too easily give up their freedom for a tiny increase in safety

nope. a patdown to prevent any concealed weapons is a good thing.... may i ask, what kind of freedoms do you loose if you are 100% sure that in a train station or in a train that no one is carrying a knife or a gun or something lethal? >tiny increase in safety yeah, right... guns don't kill people, it is people who kill people. same for cigarettes i suppose.

I dunno, that seems like a lot to me living in NYC where we have basically none of that and life is fine. We all get on the train and go our ways and peak ridership is millions a day (prepandemic was almost 6 million on the MTA trains alone (not including the LIRR, Metro North, and NJ Transit, and Amtrak)).

I don't think anyone in NYC wants that. Talk about a police presence sheesh.

And yea I just talked about the perception issues, which is why they're cracking down on fare evaders. Basically increasing police presence to make people feel like it's the safe system they've been using for years before the pandemic.

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#66

Post by aqme28 »

strato-cumulus wrote: post #19
aqme28 wrote: post #2

It's interesting watching the difference in how transit is treated by officials between NYC (where I lived last year) and Berlin (where I live this year). In NYC, we're ramping up enforcement and cracking down on fare jumping. In Berlin, it's the opposite-- less fare-enforcement and more subsidies for people to take the train. I really have a hard time seeing how NYC's strategy could be more effective. It's not even…

It's true that Berlin public transit has no physical fare enforcement (e.g. there are no ticket gates at subway stations), but the state operator of public transit is anything but lax on fare dodgers: the tickets are being checked randomly by undercover ticket inspectors, and every so often there's news of an inspector being violent [0]. The reality with ticket inspectors stands in stark contrast to the witty and pla…

Yes generally, but during this €9 fare summer, I haven’t seen any checks at all. They just assume you all paid for it.

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#67

Post by mqus »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #12

German €9 transit ticket would be even more effective, if they didn't mandate wearing masks in public transport. I know many people that previously used public transport, and now use cars exclusively, only because they don't have desire to wear masks during the commute.

I can't imagine that masks alone were the reason. I use them for two 1h commutes per day and I simply can't understand how they are such an issue. It is a bit annoying but you get used to it. Even longer distances like three hours are easily manageable.

I would understand tough, if they would switch to the car because of increased risk of catching the virus.

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#68

Post by jupp0r »

shafyy wrote: post #64
jupp0r wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is that we should focus on expensive initiatives that don’t reduce carbon emissions as much as alternatives because you like them personally?

My argument is that we should focus on reducing emissions.

That's ineffective. We should focus on reducing carbon in the atmosphere whichever way is most effective given the limited resources we have. Nothing else matters to prevent/reverse global warming.

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#69

Post by jupp0r »

codyb wrote: post #37
jupp0r wrote: post #28

This has cost the German government 2.5 billion Euros [1]. That’s $1388 per metric ton of CO2. Current direct air capture technology is estimated to cost between $132 and $342 per metric ton [2]. If the goal was to reduce carbon emissions, this was a giant waste of money, even compared to the most expensive forms of carbon reduction. [1] https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.9-euro-ticket-kost... [2] https://www.…

But how much money flows into their coffers from increased tourism/isn't spent to bail out businesses with less customers? I think this leaves out that people who can more readily access more of Germany spend more money when they get off the transit systems.

Climate change doesn't care about increased tourism.

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#70

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

codyb wrote: post #65
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nope. a patdown to prevent any concealed weapons is a good thing.... may i ask, what kind of freedoms do you loose if you are 100% sure that in a train station or in a train that no one is carrying a knife or a gun or something lethal? >tiny increase in safety yeah, right... guns don't kill people, it is people who kill people. same for cigarettes i suppose.

I dunno, that seems like a lot to me living in NYC where we have basically none of that and life is fine. We all get on the train and go our ways and peak ridership is millions a day (prepandemic was almost 6 million on the MTA trains alone (not including the LIRR, Metro North, and NJ Transit, and Amtrak)). I don't think anyone in NYC wants that. Talk about a police presence sheesh. And yea I just talked about the pe…

NYC subway is said to be stinky, with homeless people and people dying and such, people throwing fights and stuff...

>And yea I just talked about the perception issues, which is why they're cracking down on fare evaders.

why should that not be a problem when they are running a public utility? oh, did i mention that women just have to carry an empty "card" with no balance and they can "actually freeride" the whole train for as long as they want ?

so only men have to pay for their rides and everyone is happy with the arrangement in delhi so why should they NOT enforce men not paying?

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