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The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

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Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#81

Post by SamReidHughes »

learc83 wrote: post #73
ars wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His question is what law gives the NFL this right. You can't just claim "I own" this. As far as I know I am allowed to record anything I want. Perhaps not with audio, but I am not aware of any law that gives someone the right to prevent video recording. They have the right to kick you out (if they catch you), but not to prevent recording. If you know of such a law, please post it.

http://www.harvardlawreview.org/media/pdf/united_states_v_ma... 2007 the 2nd circuit upheld an anti-bootlegging law, that prevents people from selling unauthorized recordings of live concerts. I don't agree with it, but I think that under the law an NFL "performance" might be covered. Of course the concert is a performance of a copyrighted work so who knows unless the teams are merely "performing" copyrighted written…

Concerts (and plays, speeches, etc) are performances, which are different from improvised speech and athletic competitions.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#82

Post by zb »

ars wrote: post #59
akmiller wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly certain the NFL has licensing rights and prohibits any video reproduction of any kind so you could try to get away with it for awhile, but it wouldn't last long!

What is the legal basis that gives them this ability?

I believe a recording of a performance would be considered a derivative work under copyright law. As such what you're advocating is large-scale commercial copyright infringement against the NFL and the networks who pay it for exclusive rights.

In summary: unambiguously unlawful + powerful enemies = won't end well

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#83

Post by tallanvor »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #35

I used to watch NHL hockey when I was a kid. Then I started going to college hockey games, and that was great, but a terrible side effect is that I've never been able to enjoy TV hockey in quite the same way. Those players off the screen are really important . The advent of HDTV has done a lot to fix this for hockey, where the rink is not so huge. But it would be awesome to have full-field perspective on football.

I have a slightly different problem... I grew up watching WHL games. When I tried to watch NHL games on TV, I got bored waiting for the good hits and fights.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#84

Post by matwood »

philwelch wrote: post #75
neutronicus wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the ball is being snapped: Watch the offensive linemen. If any one of them fires forward and crosses the line of scrimmage, it's a run. If either guard (guys to either side of the center) starts running to one side or the other, the play is almost certainly going that way. If the offensive linemen stand up and move backwards, it's probably a pass. The quarterback and running back do a lot of things to disguise whi…

I know that's the rule, but my question is: how the hell does play-action even work? Can't the defense read the line instead of watching for a handoff?

There are run plays (a draw for example) where the o-line blocks like it's a pass. They can also block like it's a run for a play action pass and still give the qb enough time to throw the ball.

One thing that isn't clear on TV is just how hard it can be during a play to see just where the ball is. Linemen are huge and RBs are typically shorter guys. When the play goes off it's often hard to see exactly what is happening and the defense is reacting to cues more so than seeing right where the ball is at that time.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#85

Post by ars »

zb wrote: post #82
ars wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the legal basis that gives them this ability?

I believe a recording of a performance would be considered a derivative work under copyright law. As such what you're advocating is large-scale commercial copyright infringement against the NFL and the networks who pay it for exclusive rights. In summary: unambiguously unlawful + powerful enemies = won't end well

To be a performance there has to be a creative element, not just a skill. Like wrestling for example, which is pre-scripted.

Otherwise someone jumping on a trampoline in his backyard could claim that he is performing and forbid the neighbor from recording him on a copyright basis (rather than a privacy basis - they are completely different laws).

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#86

Post by danssig »

philwelch wrote: post #75
neutronicus wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the ball is being snapped: Watch the offensive linemen. If any one of them fires forward and crosses the line of scrimmage, it's a run. If either guard (guys to either side of the center) starts running to one side or the other, the play is almost certainly going that way. If the offensive linemen stand up and move backwards, it's probably a pass. The quarterback and running back do a lot of things to disguise whi…

I know that's the rule, but my question is: how the hell does play-action even work? Can't the defense read the line instead of watching for a handoff?

Because in play action the linemen behave as though it were a run.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#87

Post by matwood »

steve8918 wrote: post #67
keeptrying wrote: post #5

You can figure out whats happening on the field just from what they show on TV. I wrote an answer on quora on how to do this: What I enjoy in a football game is understanding the strategy thats being carried out and the efficiency of execution on every play. I've broken down a list of positions/schemes/plays to look for below. The following applies when watching a regular play from scrimmage - ie one that will be eit…

Your information is interesting and useful, but I am inferring that you're saying that we don't need an expanded view. If this your point, then I disagree with you. There's a lot you can't see with the standard TV view that you get, and sure you can discern some things, but as the article says, a lot of the plays happen off camera, because the view is centered around the QB. You can see the QB throw the ball, and you…

Exactly! You also get to see the third dimension a bit better and understand how skilled QBs are at not just putting the throw on a spot, but also the arc on getting it there.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#88

Post by matwood »

curiouskat wrote: post #17
josephcooney wrote: post #10

What's the reason for keeping the footage out of the public's hands? "Proprietary NFL coaching information" doesn't really explain it. Are the NFL making money off the teams by cutting them a special deal of All-22 footage of their own games, and opponents?

The NFL's lawyers stated the NFL competes in the "entertainment marketplace" ( http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?renderfor... ) and operates as a single entity, not as 32 teams. The NFL makes a large portion of its revenue from television, and ratings are higher on close, competitive games. What prevents owners from keeping the games close or trading wins/losses now to help a storyline in exchange fo…

The only way the NFL could hope to come anywhere near fixing a game is the either a) change the rules to benefit certain team makesup (as they have done to make passing/scoring easier) or b) get the refs to call fouls more against a certain team.

b) is watched frequently and doesn't seem to be happening statistically a) has occurred but it's not secret and all teams know the rules. It's not really 'fixing' as much as it was the NFL wanting more scoring overall.

There is no way for the NFL to do mass game fixing because that's just too many people that have to agree to doing it. Keep in mind this means they would need current players, ex-players and the ex disgruntled players too all agree to not talk. I've talked to players from all 3 groups at the gym and fixing a game is simply something that doesn't happen. Some of these guys are very negative on the NFL and would have loved to say it's fake if it was true.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#89

Post by neutronicus »

philwelch wrote: post #75
neutronicus wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the ball is being snapped: Watch the offensive linemen. If any one of them fires forward and crosses the line of scrimmage, it's a run. If either guard (guys to either side of the center) starts running to one side or the other, the play is almost certainly going that way. If the offensive linemen stand up and move backwards, it's probably a pass. The quarterback and running back do a lot of things to disguise whi…

I know that's the rule, but my question is: how the hell does play-action even work? Can't the defense read the line instead of watching for a handoff?

Play-action works on two levels:

1. The linebackers and safeties forget to watch the linemen, and watch the backfield. This isn't exactly dumb, because it's easy to take a bad angle on a runningback if you're paying too much attention to the linemen.

2. The linemen take one hard step forward, but not enough to get downfield, and then pass set.

One thing to remember about the NFL is that every single step matters. A linebacker doesn't have to run into the line and tackle the runningback for play-action to be effective. All he has to do is take one or two steps towards the line of scrimmage when he should be moving backwards and you can complete a pass over him.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#90

Post by matwood »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #23
matdwyer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would work for about 20 minutes until they find out your location and throw the book at you for broadcasting a copyrighted event. You got an SLR in, but try "filming" a game with it - you'll be stopped in under 10 minutes, I promise you Also, that isn't like the streaming sites where you can be at a desk in Sweden and re-broadcasting games fairly anonymously... they'd just walk up to your seat and escort you out…

> That would work for about 20 minutes until they find out your location and throw the book at you for broadcasting a copyrighted event. Um, no? There is nothing copyrighted about the on-field action of a football game. All they can do is kick you out of the stadium.

I believe the teams jerseys, likenesses, logos, etc... all fall under copyright.
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