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The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

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Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#61

Post by nkassis »

loso wrote: post #56

I have always been a football fan but when I was in college I lived in the Football dorm and it changed how I saw the game forever. (Back story, I lived in those dorms because I'm a big guy and the coach wanted me to play for the team. I told him yeah because I noticed that at registration all of the Football players were able to skip in line. I never did play because I loved Basketball more than Football at the time…

There a few things that are starting to bleed from the madden into the real life game. Time management is one of them. I can't remember who it was but a few years ago a player was running for the ends zone and had a huge lead on the defense, 1 yard from the end zone he started running sideways draining as much clock as possible, assuring no come back from the opposite team.

I saw I believe Leon Washington for the Jaguars pull a similar stunt once, the D seemed to be giving him a free TD at the end of the game but he preferred to just take a knee right before the end zone. With the new Canadian Football rule requiring contact to end the play the D lost a few seconds not reacting fast enough (first year it was implemented I believe) thinking he was down.

The game is also teaching much better strategy to players, getting them to understand more than their position.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#62

Post by kingnothing »

bokonist wrote: post #49
mechanical_fish wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is excellent. Here's a question: Where can I buy the equivalent of this post , but in video form with actual illustrative game footage? I've wanted to see that for some time. Want it for every sport on earth, really. I've thought about trying to watch a bunch of coaching videos for my sport of choice, but was never sure it would help. They aren't designed for me. I don't need to know how to think like an above-a…

If you have an xbox or playstation buy Madden and try learning to play the game it a bit. The formations, plays, and strategy are pretty much all real. You'll learn about different formations, routes, zone defense, etc.

Agreed. I really didn't understand football much at all until I started playing Madden with a group of friends. They helped me out in the beginning by answering questions like "why are there two different colored lines for the QB routes?" (it's an option play). By learning the game of Madden, I learned the game of football and now have an appreciation for the sport.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#63

Post by m_myers »

keeptrying wrote: post #44
mechanical_fish wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is excellent. Here's a question: Where can I buy the equivalent of this post , but in video form with actual illustrative game footage? I've wanted to see that for some time. Want it for every sport on earth, really. I've thought about trying to watch a bunch of coaching videos for my sport of choice, but was never sure it would help. They aren't designed for me. I don't need to know how to think like an above-a…

Thank you. Hmm I've never actually seen anything put together like this. But you can follow Chris Brown on Grantland.com who breaks donw plays (with video and diagrams) from each NFL week and you'll slowly figure out what to look for and understand the strategy within the game. Also nfl.com has PlayBook (show) videos which break down different plays from the week. A great tool to watch plays in stop motion so you can…

I actually found The Triangle on Grantland through Chris Brown's blog: http://smartfootball.com/. He has a large archive covering both offensive and defensive strategy, well worth a look.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#64

Post by nkassis »

ars wrote: post #59
akmiller wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly certain the NFL has licensing rights and prohibits any video reproduction of any kind so you could try to get away with it for awhile, but it wouldn't last long!

What is the legal basis that gives them this ability?

I believe the stadiums as private properties can set rules on what is allowed to be brought in. Most ticket have a disclaimer on the back saying you can't film in the stadium but IANAL. It could just be FUD.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#65

Post by nkassis »

1010101111001 wrote: post #20

Well, this is why NFL Films and the old programs they produced in the 70's and 80's are so cool. NFL Films had it all. Every angle, every sound plus the all-22. They could do the full analysis. And their choice of music was, in retrospect, brilliant. I can watch those old programs year after year. Somehow I never get tired of them. Now we have ESPN. Hats off to keeptrying. You are a true fan.

While ESPN has some problems, I'm not going to complain about them as the only way I can watch my College team play while in Canada is through their espnplayer.com service. My wife thinks I'm crazy for paying for it but hell it's an addiction. If I can't be in the stadium I have to see every play somehow. (I'm sure I'm not the only one watching then end of the game when loosing by 50 points right? )

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#67

Post by steve8918 »

keeptrying wrote: post #5

You can figure out whats happening on the field just from what they show on TV. I wrote an answer on quora on how to do this: What I enjoy in a football game is understanding the strategy thats being carried out and the efficiency of execution on every play. I've broken down a list of positions/schemes/plays to look for below. The following applies when watching a regular play from scrimmage - ie one that will be eit…

Your information is interesting and useful, but I am inferring that you're saying that we don't need an expanded view. If this your point, then I disagree with you.

There's a lot you can't see with the standard TV view that you get, and sure you can discern some things, but as the article says, a lot of the plays happen off camera, because the view is centered around the QB. You can see the QB throw the ball, and you can see running plays but you get no information on longer plays, or how the defense actually works.

As the article says, watching what's happening in the secondary has become a lot more important given that the NFL basically wants to turn itself into a passing league. More and more often, the action happens off camera and you only get a better view on replays.

The one thing I like about watching Sunday Night Football on NBC online is that you can actually change the view to the "Madden" view, so that you're right behind the QB and you can see the entire field. This gives a lot better insight into what the QB sees, and there you can really appreciate things like how even 1-2 feet of separation gives a skilled QB just enough space to throw a well placed ball away from the defender, etc.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#68

Post by philwelch »

KC8ZKF wrote: post #55
philwelch wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is, a lot of memorable and important moments probably couldn't be faked if they tried, like the catch against the helmet when the Patriots lost to the Giants. It would most certainly be a scandal, likely illegal or jeopardizing the NFL's Congressionally granted monopoly if it were fixed. One precedent is the quiz show scandals of the 50's.

I don't think the NFL has a Congressionally granted monopoly.

They passed a law exempting the NFL from certain antitrust laws during the AFL-NFL merger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFL-NFL_merger

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#69

Post by 1010101111001 »

nkassis wrote: post #65
1010101111001 wrote: post #20

Well, this is why NFL Films and the old programs they produced in the 70's and 80's are so cool. NFL Films had it all. Every angle, every sound plus the all-22. They could do the full analysis. And their choice of music was, in retrospect, brilliant. I can watch those old programs year after year. Somehow I never get tired of them. Now we have ESPN. Hats off to keeptrying. You are a true fan.

While ESPN has some problems, I'm not going to complain about them as the only way I can watch my College team play while in Canada is through their espnplayer.com service. My wife thinks I'm crazy for paying for it but hell it's an addiction. If I can't be in the stadium I have to see every play somehow. (I'm sure I'm not the only one watching then end of the game when loosing by 50 points right? )

How about the CFL?

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#70

Post by josephcooney »

_delirium wrote: post #26
josephcooney wrote: post #10

What's the reason for keeping the footage out of the public's hands? "Proprietary NFL coaching information" doesn't really explain it. Are the NFL making money off the teams by cutting them a special deal of All-22 footage of their own games, and opponents?

It's basically the "data", in that when you have the all-22 view, you can extract the full player-locations-at-each-time data set reasonably well using computer-vision techniques. It seems reasonable to believe that that data is potentially valuable and/or sensitive, even if they aren't 100% sure what they want to do with it yet.

That sounds plausible, but what makes NFL so special? Football broadcasts (Champions League, World Cup, etc.) generally show a half to 3/4 field view of the action, only zooming in to show the action on replays. I certainly get the sense that they're trying to show as much of the action as possible.
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