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Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

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Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#131

Post by devwastaken »

helf wrote: post #110

Amazes me the number of people who cry foul when something like this occurs. “Waaa censorship! This is evil! The internet is collapsing! Omg!” 1. Archive.org probably has just disallowed access. Not outright purged. 2. Shit drops off the internet literally every day 3. It’s a site full of edgelord incels who have a history of being complete pieces of shit 4. This isn’t a precursor to some horrible dystopian future of…

By removing records of KF, we cannot prove the acts done on KF. You know, evidence, the thing you need to know if something is true or not. Or the thing you need to prosecute people civilly (or criminally). If I wanted to rightfully go after users of KF, or KF itself, how exactly do you intend to do that when all records are destroyed.

"The guberment will handle it" - they're not, and haven't for years. The only justice to be had here is if people themselves push for it. Alphabet orgs could care less, if not already members of it.

You're being both intellectually dishonest, hyperbolic, and strawmanning at the same time. Content that is illigal is taken down as it is reported. Not all content is illigal, no one has claimed KF for things outside of organized harassment.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#132

Post by hoseja »

badRNG wrote: post #83
jimmydorry wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What KF? Never heard of it. I guess the old addage has never been truer: "History is Written by Victors"

They have a reputation for targeting people to intensely harass into suicide, with Byuu being a notable victim in the HN/CS sphere. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27657610

There is no proof at all that that user hasn't simply abandoned a handle, for others likewise the connection is less than tenuous and besides i.e. Twitter has much worse, proven track record of doing that and worse. Stop the knee-jerk reaction and spreading wilful misinformation.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#133

Post by voidpointercast »

Cr4shMyCar wrote: post #124
firstSpeaker wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. When there is a due process and it is done with the accordance of law that we are all supposed to abide. Not by unilateral decision of a tech CEO/Staff.

That's the problem though. Legal gears move slowly, and you know that Kiwifarms would've kept destroying people's lives and driving people to suicide until they got shut down. I would've preferred actual legal action rather than companies dropping KF because they're bad for business, but the end goal of getting them shut down is the same.

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#134

Post by vintermann »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #120
0cVlTeIATBs wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence KF has tried to stay obscure?

Well there can't be evidence one way or the other now that they're off the wayback machine. Although it does enhance my point, which is that Kiwi Farms benefits from this.

It's silly. If Kiwifarms benefits from and wanted this, try telling it to those people on Twitter, or to admins and moderators on Reddit, where even talking about Kiwifarms could get you banned, much less linking to it.

If you try to convince them, likely you would get an unbelievable amount of negative online attention sent your way. Ironically the same thing they hate Kiwifarms for.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#135

Post by voidpointercast »

Cr4shMyCar wrote: post #108
baud147258 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

was that reputation substantial though?

Yes, yes it was. Kiwifarms users harassed, stalked, and doxxed 3 people (at least) into suicide and ruined many people's lives. How many people has an average site like Hacker News bullied into suicide?

[flagged]

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#136

Post by dpkirchner »

firstSpeaker wrote: post #96
manuelabeledo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm okay with removing someone from the internet if their business is to harass and dox people.

Absolutely. When there is a due process and it is done with the accordance of law that we are all supposed to abide. Not by unilateral decision of a tech CEO/Staff.

I'm not comfortable with people being forced at metaphorical gunpoint to host or deliver objectionable content, and that appears to be what you're proposing here. If we want governments to mandate due process standards, they can be the ones to host that content as a provider-of-last-resort.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#137

Post by devwastaken »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #121
devwastaken wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody said that.

By claiming censorship, it's implied that they deserve a platform, and to not have that taken away from them. You can't censor someone without a platform.

IA isn't a "platform". Claiming censorship does not mean deserving of a platform. Reality is they already have a platform, and will continue to do so, now in even more anonymous methods. Preventing users from being held responsible.

The best that could have been done is if CF continued to proxy it, and answered discovery and court orders, that way users could be unmasked and prosecuted. But now they got away free.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#139

Post by jjulius »

devwastaken wrote: post #131
helf wrote: post #110

Amazes me the number of people who cry foul when something like this occurs. “Waaa censorship! This is evil! The internet is collapsing! Omg!” 1. Archive.org probably has just disallowed access. Not outright purged. 2. Shit drops off the internet literally every day 3. It’s a site full of edgelord incels who have a history of being complete pieces of shit 4. This isn’t a precursor to some horrible dystopian future of…

By removing records of KF, we cannot prove the acts done on KF. You know, evidence, the thing you need to know if something is true or not. Or the thing you need to prosecute people civilly (or criminally). If I wanted to rightfully go after users of KF, or KF itself, how exactly do you intend to do that when all records are destroyed. "The guberment will handle it" - they're not, and haven't for years. The only just…

>By removing records of KF, we cannot prove the acts done on KF.

You're ignoring (what was that about "intellectual dishonesty"?) the part where this is likely still archived by them, just not publicly accessible. You're also forgetting the countless screenshots and other documentation that exists of KF from prior controversial incidents.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#140

Post by dmix »

mazdayasna wrote: post #60
hnburnsy wrote: post #49

Well I guess there is now limited ways for someone to evaluate for themselves on whether KF was posting horrific content without significant moderation. Guess we at least have Taylor Lorenz to tell us exactly what is going on here in a full and unbiased way. Someone here at HN at least posted this link which told more of the story than I have seen anywhere else. Also search the HN archives (for now at least it seems)…

Thanks for spreading this some more. Funny enough, I got that link from reading an archived version of Keffals' thread on KF while trying to get a bead on the situation myself. At best, KF threads are a simple public record of a person's online presence, (that they themselves posted publicly initially) content which I believe should absolutely be online. At worst, the popularity of threads about trans/autistic people…

There’s no way there won’t be another site of the terminally online obsessively documenting the terminally online.

There is clearly massive demand for content about people like Chris Chan and Keffals, and these people have a way of constantly generating new controversy and attention (this obviously doesn’t justify harassment or IRL threats). If the drug war taught us anything it’s that demand can’t be squashed by playing wack-a-mole and then putting your fingers in your ears until it pops back up again next week.

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