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Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

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Re: Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

#71

Post by navjack27 »

bArray wrote: post #54

> I've seen how dangerous it can be for a trans woman to stick her head up. I've watched friends and strangers alike be harassed, attacked, SWAT'd, and doxxed. Not public figures (though they don't deserve death threats either), just regular trans people trying to live their lives and speak their experiences. These problems are all being collated together, but they are not of equal strength. Things that cause physica…

The entire concept of them cleaning up their act is impossible. That is the background. That is the reason for existing. That's what they do. They coordinate harassment. They make people go insane. They lie and manipulate. Making them harder to access and harder to know about is good. Making what the core of what they are more known is good. It shouldn't be so easy for some gullible online soul to stumble upon this and become part of it.

Re: Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

#72

Post by navjack27 »

diogenesjunior wrote: post #56
sinclairX86 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to comment and say that you cannot just disregard the fear of harassment because there might be those two motives. But I realised, I myself am afraid of being harassed if I don’t post from a throwaway account. Maybe that fear is not justified — I never heard of KiwiFarms before Cloudflare booted them. I don’t mind people writing crazy stuff intended to offend. Harassment is a pretty solid breach of the golde…

yeah but they have no reason to doxx you. you're just a regular person. if it turned out you supplied life changing drugs to minors behind their parents backs that were brewed in your bathtub, maybe then you'd have a problem. they dont just see a trans person and then decide to harass them

That literally isn't what was happening.

Re: Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

#73

Post by snoided »

thedorkknight wrote: post #65
yanderekko wrote: post #51

As someone who pseudonymously defends the right of KiwiFarms to exist, I am pretty much guaranteed to lose my job if I am doxxed and targeted by the usual activist crowd. A trans woman who opposes KiwiFarms faces no comparable intrinsic threat, which is why I can't take these crybully attacks on speech seriously.

Do we have many/any examples of people defending free speech (note: not defending hate speech) losing their jobs for it? Honestly asking. I'd be interested in seeing how the number of incidents someone actually getting harmed by supporting free speech compares to the amount of people harmed for being trans or supporting trans rights

No post body was provided.

Re: Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

#74

Post by snoided »

Volundr wrote: post #67
yanderekko wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously the cancellation mob only has reach to a limited number of targets, like KiwiFarms. If Keffels or someone like them did in fact highlight someone and contact their employer I expect that this would have results.

Sure, it doesn't need to happen to everyone to be a valid concern, but it needs to happen to someone. So who? Who is this person who has been attacked by the "cancellation mob" and fired for saying nothing more than "Cloudflare shouldn't have dropped Kiwifarms, if a crime was committed it was a matter for law enforcement?"

No post body was provided.

Re: Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

#75

Post by snoided »

navjack27 wrote: post #72
diogenesjunior wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah but they have no reason to doxx you. you're just a regular person. if it turned out you supplied life changing drugs to minors behind their parents backs that were brewed in your bathtub, maybe then you'd have a problem. they dont just see a trans person and then decide to harass them

That literally isn't what was happening.

[flagged]

Re: Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

#77

Post by darksaints »

thedorkknight wrote: post #65
yanderekko wrote: post #51

As someone who pseudonymously defends the right of KiwiFarms to exist, I am pretty much guaranteed to lose my job if I am doxxed and targeted by the usual activist crowd. A trans woman who opposes KiwiFarms faces no comparable intrinsic threat, which is why I can't take these crybully attacks on speech seriously.

Do we have many/any examples of people defending free speech (note: not defending hate speech) losing their jobs for it? Honestly asking. I'd be interested in seeing how the number of incidents someone actually getting harmed by supporting free speech compares to the amount of people harmed for being trans or supporting trans rights

I'd be surprised to find any examples. People don't get fired for thinking that abhorrent free speech should be allowed, they get fired for sympathizing with it.

Re: Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

#78

Post by darksaints »

diogenesjunior wrote: post #56
sinclairX86 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to comment and say that you cannot just disregard the fear of harassment because there might be those two motives. But I realised, I myself am afraid of being harassed if I don’t post from a throwaway account. Maybe that fear is not justified — I never heard of KiwiFarms before Cloudflare booted them. I don’t mind people writing crazy stuff intended to offend. Harassment is a pretty solid breach of the golde…

yeah but they have no reason to doxx you. you're just a regular person. if it turned out you supplied life changing drugs to minors behind their parents backs that were brewed in your bathtub, maybe then you'd have a problem. they dont just see a trans person and then decide to harass them

Actually, yes, they do do exactly that.

Re: Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

#79

Post by 3452356346 »

I have no idea who Keffels is, and I've never posted on KF, but I've freely used it for research on more than one occasion, and I honestly appreciated the fact that there was a resource like it where the crimes, lies, and other misdeeds of minor internet personalities were extensively documented. Stuff like a streamer who ran a crowd funding cash-grab scam, or another one who PM'd underage followers inappropriately. This is dirty laundry these people don't want aired, and since reddit has largely killed independent forums, and the official reddits these people maintain are all heavily censored, and since these people aren't quite noteworthy enough for the MSM to hold them to account, KF was, for better or worse, often the only place you could go to get the "dirt" on them.

Which calls into question the popular characterization of KF as a "troll site." Trolls will readily lie or fabricate to cause outrage and chaos. Is that an accurate characterization of KF? From my experience lurking there, the non-editorial, purportedly factual content on it (not the opinion or speculation) was completely accurate. They would not post stuff they knew to be false.

Re: Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

#80

Post by thedorkknight »

Volundr wrote: post #67
yanderekko wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously the cancellation mob only has reach to a limited number of targets, like KiwiFarms. If Keffels or someone like them did in fact highlight someone and contact their employer I expect that this would have results.

Sure, it doesn't need to happen to everyone to be a valid concern, but it needs to happen to someone. So who? Who is this person who has been attacked by the "cancellation mob" and fired for saying nothing more than "Cloudflare shouldn't have dropped Kiwifarms, if a crime was committed it was a matter for law enforcement?"

Wondering this as well. I'm open to being wrong, but I'm wondering if this is one of those cases where it feels that way to him because of other people saying it feels that way to them, self-reinforcing the sentiment
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