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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#731

Post by sonofhans »

charcircuit wrote: post #522
ChicagoDave wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the entire history here, but my understanding is that KF was a forum where doxing and swatting was openly pervasive. Sounds like a perfect example of society holding a site accountable and producing the correct outcome. There was no government involved, so it's not a "free speech" issue. I always talk about the wild west of the late 90's when the Internet was brand new. My colleagues and I all talked abo…

Quoted post unavailable.

> Doxing, as in compiling public information about people on the internet did happen, but …

There’s no “but” here. This is a common talking point defending this forum — “at least they didn’t explicitly do something worse” — but doxxing is unethical and illegal. Period. This forum encouraged, enabled, and glorified it.

> the forums were not about swatting and doing so is against the spirit and the rules of the forums. That said if someone was swatted it is fair game for that event to be documented on the forums.

This is bullshit designed to evade responsibility with a wink and a nod. The forum provides the means and glorifies the result, but believes that its hands are clean because they don’t explicitly setup a SWAT autodialer.

> In the case of the internet where most of it is privately owned it will require the companies and individuals to protect freedom of speech to have freedom of speech on the internet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#732

Post by jakelazaroff »

cowtools wrote: post #706
masklinn wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Free speech is more than just an amendment to the constitution. It is also a doctrine that knowledge and discussion should generally be free, and that people shouldn't be persecuted for their beliefs. "Generally" is an important word here. So is "should". That speech "should generally" be free does not mean all speech is always acceptable. As the saying goes, your freedom to act ends where my nose begins. When a si…

[flagged]

> Even if CF is within their ability to censor KF, I think it's immoral for them to do so on the basis of freedom-of-speech as a doctrine, which I believe in myself. What speech does KF publish that is unacceptable?

Cloudflare isn’t censoring Kiwi Farms, but I’ll answer your question anyway. Kiwi Farms is a space for people to collaborate on the intimidation of others. It is an inherently anti–free speech project. It causes people to be afraid to post publicly online, for fear of malicious people stalking them. It causes people to avoid talking about the abuse, for fear of being targeted themselves. At worst, it caused people to take their own lives to escape the harassment — the ultimate in silencing someone else.

The free speech rights of Kiwi Farms’ victims are no less important than its users. Its removal from the Internet is a net win for freedom of speech.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#733

Post by flumpcakes »

dxuh wrote: post #730

This really shows again that there is no use in giving in to angry Twitter mobs. There is something not quite right with them and even if they are given what they want, you are still the bad guy because it took too long. It happens again and again and people and institutions still give in.

I was just going through the page on Kiwifarms about the person behind the dropkiwifarms campaign and the stuff they have said is shocking. I would say it is on par with anything I've read on Kiwifarms and they're getting 30,000 people to "ratio" their posts so they have a massive audience.

There is no winner in this entire saga of internet drama.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#734

Post by richbell »

KerrAvon wrote: post #705
waffle_ss wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And in the United States, we don't We don't? Didn't Zuckerberg just admit on Joe Rogan that during the last election all the major media companies were briefed by feds that were was a big "misinformation" news piece incoming, so that when the Hunter Biden laptop story finally dropped, they all censored it, sight unseen? Therefore it seems all the big social media tech companies have no problem with rubberstamping g…

And, as it turned out, the Hunter Biden laptop story was 100% right wing bullshit, so it was the right thing to do. Fancy that!

The content was 100% real, though the "I found this laptop and it happened to belong to Hunter Biden" story was obviously a pretense to release content that had been obtained illegaly — likely from a hostile foreign state.

I guess it wouldn't have looked good if Rudy Guliani came out and said "the Kremelin gave me compromising videos of Joe Biden's son".

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#735

Post by seebs »

cowtools wrote: post #523
ChicagoDave wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the entire history here, but my understanding is that KF was a forum where doxing and swatting was openly pervasive. Sounds like a perfect example of society holding a site accountable and producing the correct outcome. There was no government involved, so it's not a "free speech" issue. I always talk about the wild west of the late 90's when the Internet was brand new. My colleagues and I all talked abo…

Free speech is more than just an amendment to the constitution. It is also a doctrine that knowledge and discussion should generally be free, and that people shouldn't be persecuted for their beliefs. It used to be that all forums had pervasive doxxing and swatting. People didn't use to have public internet identities like they do today- probably because there wasn't any way to profit from owning a public identity or…

No, it did not used to be that "all forums had pervasive doxxing and swatting". That has never been true. It has never been widespread. Heck, swatting as we know it today wasn't even remotely common until quite recently, and doxxing has been actively frowned on and treated as potentially criminal since, like, the 80s.

I dunno what you think you're arguing, but it's nonsense.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#736

Post by anigbrowl »

bulkprotocol wrote: post #214
oneplane wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Kiwifarms was not a 'nazi' forum, it's so easy to tell who never actually lurked there or did enough due diligence to actually investigate for themselves what the site actually hosted lmfao

It's just a coincidence that there are so many threads with titles like 'what is the final solution to the _____ question?'

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#737

Post by JumpCrisscross »

cowtools wrote: post #686
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since when is "doxxing" a crime? The focus on doxxing is odd. There were SWATs. There were credible bomb threats. Since when is there a public obligation to sell your work to domestic terrorists?

Anyone can SWAT anyone with enough personal information and a cell phone. You cannot stop swatting by taking down a forum like KF- because a swatting attack is trivial to execute, and can be falsely attributed to any party. If I started swatting people I read about in the newspaper or yellow pages, would the newspaper or yellow pages be to blame? Should they be taken down? Should the new york times be refused service…

> started swatting people I read about in the newspaper or yellow pages, would the newspaper or yellow pages be to blame?

If you were organising these through the newspaper’s classifieds, yes, obviously, everyone would get in trouble.

> journalism and free speech is inherently risky but necessary for the maintenance of free society

There is zero journalistic value in bomb threats. There may be something redeeming hidden away in those forums. But nobody should be forced or expected to do business with them.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#738

Post by philippejara »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #709
_vvaw wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of SWATing, harassment, and "driving people to suicide" this is a false impression, one that is intentionally spread by the site's detractors. SWATing and harassment is strictly banned on Kiwi Farms. The site owner aggressively removes such posts and cooperates with law enforcement. The leader of the campaign to take down Kiwi Farms is Keffals, a transsexual Twitch streamer with a large underage audience. Ki…

Wait, the owner of the site explicitly doesn’t cooperate with law enforcement though?? I first heard of them because of the owner of the site insisted on hosting a video of a hate-based mass shooting against law enforcement requests. I really doubt your claims here; you lie in your first paragraph.

He seems to explicitly cooperate with US law enforcement[0], what you're referring to is the new zealand government trying to get them not only to take down the chirstchurch shooting video but also give them the IP of everyone that posted it so they can prosecute them. The only jurisdiction that matters to him is the US, so i'd assume that's where the servers and the company is located.

[0]: https://web.archive.org/web/20220707041302/https://kiwifarms...

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#739

Post by cuteboy19 »

Cyberdog wrote: post #600
karlshea wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? https://www.businessinsider.com/kiwi-farms-trans-activists-m...

Quoted post unavailable.

Some proof would be nice. This is just conjecture. Maybe you are lying

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#740

Post by forty »

akira2501 wrote: post #466
mikl wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DDoS’ing is quite different from just turning your back on someone. It’s more akin to following someone around with a megaphone and shouting over everything they say so no one can hear them. Sure, you might celebrate when that’s done to someone you dislike, but a lot less appealing if you imagine it done to a cause you agree with.

Also, DDoS is a crime. Saying racist things isn't. We shouldn't blur the line here.

That probably depends a lot of the country. Both are illegal here in France (for racism, if it's insulting or hateful in particular)
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