Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service • Hacker News Board

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#721

Post by vintermann » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 8:44 PM UTC

Cyberdog wrote: post #600

karlshea wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? https://www.businessinsider.com/kiwi-farms-trans-activists-m...

Quoted post unavailable.

One who did not impress with critical thinking skills, was swatting victim (and notorious US right-wing politician) Marjorie Taylor Greene. The person phoning in false reports on them literally did this, as transparently as possible. Via KnowYourMeme:

> According to a police report obtained by the Daily Dot, a caller tipped the police to inform them that a man had been shot five times in a bathtub in Greene's home. Police arrived at Greene's home and confirmed no such incident had occurred. The tipper then called the police department again and, using a computer-generated voice, explained the motive for their false tip was their opposition to Greene's stances on transgender youth's rights. They also stated they were a Kiwi Farms user and said their username was AltisticRight, an admin on the site.

And Marjorie Taylor Greene actually believed that the tipper told the truth and supported the deplatforming of the site. So much for the "politically incorrect" being any better on this sort of thing.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#722

Post by CyberDildonics » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 8:44 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #280

weare138 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 people are dead because of that site. What they were doing was a crime. Criminal activity is not is not protected free speech. That's like arguing carding and SIM swapping sites are just expressing their right to free speech and should be protected.

I'm a free speech advocate but 100% agree with you. Our legislators needs to make laws against targeted, anonymous, non-journalistic doxxing. It needs to include clauses that escalate the severity when revenge porn or racial, sexual, or other discrimination is being incited. If this bullying results in suicide, that should also increase the severity of the crime. Until these laws exist, prosecutors need to use this a…

Whoever still puts out a phone book is going to be in big trouble.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#723

Post by dxuh » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 8:44 PM UTC

ivraatiems wrote: post #390

philippejara wrote: post #336

Kiwifarm's owner statement: https://web.archive.org/web/20220905182626/https://poa.st/no... This whole thing is kinda fascinating, if not extremely scary. After learning about the situation from the last couple threads here and going down the rabbit hole of sources, the future of the internet seems pretty sad... If cloudflare doesn't reinstate the website after dealing with said immediate danger they claimed was the…

Did you ever watch 12 Angry Men ? There's a scene in that movie where an unabashedly racist man is making his point as loudly and angrily as he can. One by one, all the others in the room turn their backs on him. When only one man is left, that man has a short message for the racist: "Sit down, and don't open your mouth again while I'm here." Nobody puts him in jail. Nobody takes away his right to make a living or hi…

People aren't just ignoring Kiwi Farms and letting them know that no one likes them, people are shooting them down (with DDoS attacks). And if they make use of services that are intended to prevent that, people shout these services down until they comply. How is that fundamentally different from what Kiwi Farms was doing itself? If null kills themselves, are you even? Is the anti Kiwi Farms crowd just as bad as Kiwi Farms? Or will it be fine if he was a bad person? What if the people on Kiwi Farms thought the people they were harassing are bad people?

I think this is yet again another example of a group of people thinking that something bad is not bad if it happens to the right people and another group thinking that something bad is bad no matter who does it. I am firmly in the latter group and to me Kiwi Farms and the people that kept harassing Cloudflare all look like bloodthirsty psychopaths with the difference being that the Kiwi Farmers knew they were disgusting and horrible and the others thinking they are brave saviors.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#724

Post by cauefcr » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 8:45 PM UTC

ratsmack wrote: post #534

cauefcr wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KF was made _for_ harassment, that's very different.

If you know that for a fact, maybe you can elaborate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms It doesn't seem a very controversial statement.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#725

Post by bastardoperator » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 8:45 PM UTC

cowtools wrote: post #523

ChicagoDave wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the entire history here, but my understanding is that KF was a forum where doxing and swatting was openly pervasive. Sounds like a perfect example of society holding a site accountable and producing the correct outcome. There was no government involved, so it's not a "free speech" issue. I always talk about the wild west of the late 90's when the Internet was brand new. My colleagues and I all talked abo…

Free speech is more than just an amendment to the constitution. It is also a doctrine that knowledge and discussion should generally be free, and that people shouldn't be persecuted for their beliefs. It used to be that all forums had pervasive doxxing and swatting. People didn't use to have public internet identities like they do today- probably because there wasn't any way to profit from owning a public identity or…

The first amendment is designed to protect people from government. That's it. It's beyond clear in its text. Courts have ruled time and time again finding speech that harms people is most certainly not protected. We have laws that deal with slander, libel, harassment, and speech that does not pass the clear and present danger clause does meet the criteria for "free" speech.

I don't understand how anyone can look at the first amendment text and believe anything else. The only people that think they should be allowed to say whatever they want and face no repercussion are people that simply do not understand the first amendment.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#726

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 8:45 PM UTC

ohCh6zos wrote: post #189

that_guy_iain wrote: post #45

The thing is, it's hard to feel bad for kiwifarms. They seem to be one of the worst sites there are. But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them. Personally, I think the site being shutdown is a good thing. But it's hard to look at the fact a few corporations can remove a website from the internet and think this is good for a free and…

It appears that there is no plan for this to stop with Kiwifarms, some twitter searches lead me to believe Ovarit and Mumsnet are the next targets.

[deleted]

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#727

Post by freeopinion » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 8:45 PM UTC

serf wrote: post #695

ivraatiems wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever watch 12 Angry Men ? There's a scene in that movie where an unabashedly racist man is making his point as loudly and angrily as he can. One by one, all the others in the room turn their backs on him. When only one man is left, that man has a short message for the racist: "Sit down, and don't open your mouth again while I'm here." Nobody puts him in jail. Nobody takes away his right to make a living or hi…

>Nobody puts him in jail. Nobody takes away his right to make a living or his children or his home. They just send a clear message: Don't bring that sort of thing around here. Don't bring it around us. There's no point in engaging in a dialogue with that person. the problem with this allegory is that in the movie the 12 jurors are also trying to associate and cooperate due to their need to re-acquire their own freedo…

As if human beings have transparency? Why does that matter? People don't have to explain themselves any more than corporations do. Government entities don't have transparency either. When the FCC or SEC or whoever takes some action, we don't know how may of their employees agree with that action. One administration spend years fashioning the TPP or Paris accords or Iranian agreements and the next administration can pull out a year later.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#728

Post by kelseyfrog » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 8:46 PM UTC

cowtools wrote: post #706

masklinn wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Free speech is more than just an amendment to the constitution. It is also a doctrine that knowledge and discussion should generally be free, and that people shouldn't be persecuted for their beliefs. "Generally" is an important word here. So is "should". That speech "should generally" be free does not mean all speech is always acceptable. As the saying goes, your freedom to act ends where my nose begins. When a si…

[flagged]

We all know where this line of dialog goes. Someone posts the thing and then you or someone else responds with, "it's clearly a joke," a "one off," "doesn't speak for all of KF," "not a regular user," "not affiliated with KF," "doesn't actually cause harm," or any other response.

Sorry but the pro-KF well has been poisoned - ironically by KF users and supporters themselves. It's an absolute self punch in the face. Why don't you describe what your evidentiary level of acceptibility is first and then we provide the evidence?

I'm asking because, honestly, I don't think it exists. I dont think any level of evidence would be satisfactory. Happy to be proven wrong though.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#729

Post by amadeuspagel » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 8:46 PM UTC

atoav wrote: post #667

amadeuspagel wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if the freedom of speech you are defending is impeding on the right of others to speak freely? I'm not sure how speech can impede on the right of others to speak freely. Speech can certainly discourage others from speaking freely, and that's bad for freedom of speech in a broad millian sense[1], but it's too vague to justify shutting down an entire forum because some speech there might discourage others from s…

If I were to threaten to shoot your kids if you again post something that I don't like, while making clear that I know where you live, my speach will certainly imped with your ability to express yourself freely, or wouldn't it? If you think it wouldn't I'd like to know how your thinking goes. I am not from the US, so maybe the whole theoretical idea is different from the ground up.

> If I were to threaten to shoot your kids if you again post something that I don't like, while making clear that I know where you live, my speech will certainly impede with your ability to express yourself freely, or wouldn't it?

You're right, certain speech, like direct threats of violence can impede on other people's right to freedom of speech. But such speech is illegal even in the US and also banned on Kiwi Farms.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#730

Post by dxuh » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 8:46 PM UTC

This really shows again that there is no use in giving in to angry Twitter mobs. There is something not quite right with them and even if they are given what they want, you are still the bad guy because it took too long. It happens again and again and people and institutions still give in.