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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#681

Post by Silverback_VII »

weare138 wrote: post #215
that_guy_iain wrote: post #45

The thing is, it's hard to feel bad for kiwifarms. They seem to be one of the worst sites there are. But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them. Personally, I think the site being shutdown is a good thing. But it's hard to look at the fact a few corporations can remove a website from the internet and think this is good for a free and…

3 people are dead because of that site. What they were doing was a crime. Criminal activity is not is not protected free speech. That's like arguing carding and SIM swapping sites are just expressing their right to free speech and should be protected.

with a very high suicide rate among transgender individuals I'm not sure if the deaths can solely be attributed to the site.

Moreover some of the people, who pushed to shut down the forum, openly support the transition of teens (even without the knowledge of their parents). Yet trans teens face an even higher risk of attempting suicide. Therefore one must ask if those who wanted to remove KF are not responsible for more suicides by promoting and facilitating transition among teens in identity crisis i.e. by making their problems even worse.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#682

Post by nootropicat »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #273

I didn't know about this site until yesterday. After reading the thread that got them took down, I know one thing, I will not be letting my children near discord. I mean, if this is how people act in public[0], I hate to imagine what kind of stuff they are doing in a private discord, away from parents prying eyes. There's no heroes in this story. [0] Bathtub hormones being sold to minors in bright packaging featuring…

>I know one thing, I will not be letting my children near discord

Ten years later: why is my kid such a loner?

Discord is the main persistent group chat service in the west (telegram seems popular in the third world except for China). It's used for virtually everything. Socially it's almost equivalent to cutting your kids from any online chat.

Honestly, I would consider a total ban a mild form of child abuse.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#683

Post by systemvoltage »

ivraatiems wrote: post #390
philippejara wrote: post #336

Kiwifarm's owner statement: https://web.archive.org/web/20220905182626/https://poa.st/no... This whole thing is kinda fascinating, if not extremely scary. After learning about the situation from the last couple threads here and going down the rabbit hole of sources, the future of the internet seems pretty sad... If cloudflare doesn't reinstate the website after dealing with said immediate danger they claimed was the…

Did you ever watch 12 Angry Men ? There's a scene in that movie where an unabashedly racist man is making his point as loudly and angrily as he can. One by one, all the others in the room turn their backs on him. When only one man is left, that man has a short message for the racist: "Sit down, and don't open your mouth again while I'm here." Nobody puts him in jail. Nobody takes away his right to make a living or hi…

I've seen 12 Angry Men it was impressive when I was in highschool, but now it seems like there were a lot of aspects of it which had holes. Protagonists were on the right, but they needed to do more, it isn't super convincing to me.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#684

Post by BlargMcLarg »

ChicagoDave wrote: post #659
_vvaw wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of SWATing, harassment, and "driving people to suicide" this is a false impression, one that is intentionally spread by the site's detractors. SWATing and harassment is strictly banned on Kiwi Farms. The site owner aggressively removes such posts and cooperates with law enforcement. The leader of the campaign to take down Kiwi Farms is Keffals, a transsexual Twitch streamer with a large underage audience. Ki…

Got five kids. If any of them were trans, I'd support them connecting with whatever community they could find. Some people were born into the wrong body and most kids know it immediately. The dysphoria can happen early. I'm sure there are some kids that make mistakes and try hormone therapy because they think it will make them feel better. The list of reasons they might do this are long and many are related to abuse…

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#685

Post by squeaky-clean »

dmix wrote: post #566
squeaky-clean wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of Speech also means Cloudflare doesn't have to host anyone it doesn't want to.

Freedom of speech is a cultural value, it's not something strictly defined by the US constitution. It's the reason there is a constitution not the other way around.

There's a lot of incorrect things in this, but to address the incorrect thing most relevant to this discussion:

What you are asking for is called compelled speech. If what you think "free speech" is were true, the government could force newspapers and online news websites to publish articles written by the government that they do not agree with.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#686

Post by cowtools »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #532
cowtools wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> since when is "doxxing" a crime? The focus on doxxing is odd. There were SWATs. There were credible bomb threats. Since when is there a public obligation to sell your work to domestic terrorists?

Anyone can SWAT anyone with enough personal information and a cell phone. You cannot stop swatting by taking down a forum like KF- because a swatting attack is trivial to execute, and can be falsely attributed to any party.

If I started swatting people I read about in the newspaper or yellow pages, would the newspaper or yellow pages be to blame? Should they be taken down? Should the new york times be refused service by cloudflare? Should WikiLeaks or Charlie Hebdo have their domains taken down and their IPs revoked?

The whole world is not some sort of first-world bubble where we can all safely live our lives and log into our coporatist social media at the end of the day. We have to come to terms with the fact that journalism and free speech is inherently risky but necessary for the maintenance of free society. I mean look at what happened with the panama papers or arab spring, everyone involved gets assassinated and the movements are just completely dismantled by the surveillance system within a decade. The USA is a massive exporter of the means of surveillance to the third world, and this is sort of what we are entertaining with this type of reasoning.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#687

Post by tsimionescu »

ChicagoDave wrote: post #659
_vvaw wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of SWATing, harassment, and "driving people to suicide" this is a false impression, one that is intentionally spread by the site's detractors. SWATing and harassment is strictly banned on Kiwi Farms. The site owner aggressively removes such posts and cooperates with law enforcement. The leader of the campaign to take down Kiwi Farms is Keffals, a transsexual Twitch streamer with a large underage audience. Ki…

Got five kids. If any of them were trans, I'd support them connecting with whatever community they could find. Some people were born into the wrong body and most kids know it immediately. The dysphoria can happen early. I'm sure there are some kids that make mistakes and try hormone therapy because they think it will make them feel better. The list of reasons they might do this are long and many are related to abuse…

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#688

Post by tstrimple »

tomohawk wrote: post #203
Borgz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if they decide to become platforms exclusively dedicated to harrassment, stop prohibiting and removing that type of content, and actively encourage it. Until then, it doesn't seem likely.

I've never been to kiwifarms, but I'll take your word that you find them morally reprehensible. Isn't it more morally reprehensible (and just counterproductive) to take away people's rights? It seems that the bigger threat by far is from companies like Twitter, Facebook, and Google working hand-in-glove with politicians to take away peoples rights. If removing these companies from the internet seems impossible, maybe…

No one has a right to use Cloudflare DDOS protection services. No one has a right to a twitter account. No one has a right to force companies to host their bigotry. This isn't how rights work.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#689

Post by malermeister »

charcircuit wrote: post #619
AtNightWeCode wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sit down in the boat. Thepiratebay is still online a trizillion years after all the debacles. Cloudflare is not the biggest player at these services. Any other major competitor does not allow services like KW. This whole ordeal is stupid.

Thepiratebay hasn't had an angry mob of people trying to take it down via any means necessary. A site being taken down because of copyright infringement is different from a site being taken down because of social pressure.

It's had an angry mob of copyright fanatics targeting it since it's inception

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#690

Post by philippejara »

prvit wrote: post #638
philippejara wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think screenshots of someone saying slurs in 2014 is evidence of someone being part of the daily stormer i'm afraid a lot more of the internet is a part of the daily stormer than you think. The usage of weev's the trial is also pretty absurd and manipulative, given that his trial wasn't really related to the daily stormer, but about hacking, so much so that the EFF[0] defended him. [0]: https://www.eff.org/dee…

Nobody has ever suggested that Asshurt was a part of the daily stormer, she wasn't. >The usage of weev's the trial is also pretty absurd and manipulative, given that his trial wasn't really related to the daily stormer, but about hacking, so much so that the EFF[0] defended him. Pretty sure most smart people have already distanced themselves from the EFF at this point, so that's not very convincing. EFF, despite gett…

> Nobody has ever suggested that Asshurt was a part of the daily stormer, she wasn't.

Then why link the slurs at all to accompany the argument?

> It was also a bizarre choice to defend weev, both from a legal and moral point of view. tptacek explained it well at the time https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5978686

On that same page you linked there are about as many people in favor as against, tptacek's word is not the law regardless of his competency, and it sure wasn't as uncontroversial as you make it out to be.

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