Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service • Hacker News Board

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#311

Post by benmmurphy » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

prvit wrote: post #70

that_guy_iain wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't he previously say he took down the nazi site because they were saying that the reason they weren't taken down was that he agreed with them? That provides the sort of decision making process. Also, I find it hard to believe that a legal team would all of a sudden decide 3 days after they publically announce they wouldn't remove security services from a customer that one customer who has basically been the same…

He said he took down the Daily Stormer because they claimed to have friends at Cloudflare (which was true https://nitter.net/GossiTheDog/status/1565128386753843201 )

Given she has stated in public that she is a 'troll' on twitter I don't think those twitter posts are evidence that she was a nazi. They seem consistent with her shitposting on twitter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNgLq_naOKw

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#312

Post by throwayyy479087 » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

phillipcarter wrote: post #289

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. Good to see it.

Freedom of speech for speech you hate is also a social principle - see the ACLU Klan cases.

Principles aren't supposed to be easy to keep, otherwise they're hobbies.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#313

Post by pc86 » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

antiufo wrote: post #290

irthomasthomas wrote: post #273

I didn't know about this site until yesterday. After reading the thread that got them took down, I know one thing, I will not be letting my children near discord. I mean, if this is how people act in public[0], I hate to imagine what kind of stuff they are doing in a private discord, away from parents prying eyes. There's no heroes in this story. [0] Bathtub hormones being sold to minors in bright packaging featuring…

Trans woman here, both 1) access to HRT for minors and 2) HRT without medical/parental gatekeeping are widely supported positions in the trans community (which I also endorse). Rationale for 1. It's widely supported by the medical community and by scientific studies, and helps improve the quality of life of people with gender dysphoria. Rationale for 2. Gatekeeping traditionally consist in telling a psychiatrist anec…

What is the difference between "medical gatekeeping" and requiring a prescription? Because over-the-counter hormone therapy (regardless of the intent or reasoning behind it) seems like an all around bad idea.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#314

Post by latchkey » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

bioemerl wrote: post #302

latchkey wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will not be letting my children near discord. Isn't this kind of a whack-a-mole approach to things? The internet is full of hazards... are you going to ban everything that comes up?

The correct answer is to be having regular discussions with your kids about what they're doing online, and occasionally log into their accounts, having access to their usernames so that you can do it, so that you know what they're up to. Probably not as necessary once they're like 15 or so, but up that age do not let them be on there on their own. And, of course, make sure they know critical thinking and discuss ever…

> The correct answer

I'm not a parent, so I didn't want to say that, but it is certainly what I was thinking. =)

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#315

Post by flumpcakes » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 6:30 PM UTC

latchkey wrote: post #298

irthomasthomas wrote: post #273

I didn't know about this site until yesterday. After reading the thread that got them took down, I know one thing, I will not be letting my children near discord. I mean, if this is how people act in public[0], I hate to imagine what kind of stuff they are doing in a private discord, away from parents prying eyes. There's no heroes in this story. [0] Bathtub hormones being sold to minors in bright packaging featuring…

> I will not be letting my children near discord. Isn't this kind of a whack-a-mole approach to things? The internet is full of hazards... are you going to ban everything that comes up?

I agree with the point you are making, but if we do nothing (out of apathy or pragmatism) then how is OP supposed to protect their children? A complete ban on all social media and all internet connected devices?

I don't have the answer, I think OPs solution is the only practical one: constant and even-handed-as-possible vigilance and rules and hopefully a bit of curation too.

Honestly, the internet really isn't a good place for a child and their mental health. I'm in my 30s and have been an internet native for my entire conscious memory, having seen the early 4chan, gore, etc. on the unfiltered internet. Saying all that I think it is somehow even worse today. I'm not sure how I would navigate this if I were to have children.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#316

Post by 4bpp » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 6:30 PM UTC

weare138 wrote: post #215

that_guy_iain wrote: post #45

The thing is, it's hard to feel bad for kiwifarms. They seem to be one of the worst sites there are. But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them. Personally, I think the site being shutdown is a good thing. But it's hard to look at the fact a few corporations can remove a website from the internet and think this is good for a free and…

3 people are dead because of that site. What they were doing was a crime. Criminal activity is not is not protected free speech. That's like arguing carding and SIM swapping sites are just expressing their right to free speech and should be protected.

Whether the operators of the site are guilty of a crime is surely for the courts to determine, not for Cloudflare or Twitter's userbase.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#317

Post by bioemerl » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 6:30 PM UTC

latchkey wrote: post #314

bioemerl wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The correct answer is to be having regular discussions with your kids about what they're doing online, and occasionally log into their accounts, having access to their usernames so that you can do it, so that you know what they're up to. Probably not as necessary once they're like 15 or so, but up that age do not let them be on there on their own. And, of course, make sure they know critical thinking and discuss ever…

> The correct answer I'm not a parent, so I didn't want to say that, but it is certainly what I was thinking. =)

To be fair I'm not a parent either, maybe this just won't work.

But I was also a kid, and I know that if I was barred from doing something I would 100% go behind my parents back and do it anyway, so that's not going to work.

You have to try something else.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#318

Post by originalvichy » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 6:30 PM UTC

phillipcarter wrote: post #279

more_corn wrote: post #259

It’s almost like there are some behaviors we collectively won’t tolerate and if you engage in them people will pull out all the stops to bring you down. Act like an asshole and you end up getting taken down. Who could have guessed?

> Act like an asshole and you end up getting taken down. Who could have guessed? Ah, but you see, there's a lot of right-wing HN posters here who disagree with this. They believe that acting terrible should be free from all consequences, social or legal, because ... well, I won't speculate.

They might have lived a life in which they have never had to feel real fear of targeted harassment online?

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#319

Post by Yver » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 6:31 PM UTC

wesleywt wrote: post #211

that_guy_iain wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their freedom of speech isn't being denied is it? Their right to a peaceful life is being infridged but not their freedom of speech.

Kiwifarms goal is to remove the freedom of speech of LGBTQ people online. Is it okay for them to this?

This is an inflammatory, fact-free assertion.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#320

Post by latchkey » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 6:31 PM UTC

bobzimuta wrote: post #305

latchkey wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will not be letting my children near discord. Isn't this kind of a whack-a-mole approach to things? The internet is full of hazards... are you going to ban everything that comes up?

https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-1-1-1-1-for-families...

Out of curiosity, I wonder if Kiwi was on that list before they were blocked entirely. I'd assume so. But again, this is just whack-a-mole... a kid could easily use a friends device that didn't have this on there.