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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#221

Post by ceejayoz »

systemvoltage wrote: post #210
zamalek wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them. This is not true at all, and educating yourself on the matter is trivial. "Free speech absolutism" is a very niche, unpopular, and unrealistic (some forms of speech ultimately limit other's speech, e.g. the dead don't speak) form of free speech. Spreading this pro-KF propaganda needs to st…

Speak for yourself. Speech is ingrained in American culture on both aisles of the political spectrum until last 5-10 years. It’s way beyond 1st amendment and the technicalities of Government limits. ACLU used to defend KKK’s right to march and express. Liberals used to be extremely pro free speech even reaching across the spectrum in the bowels of right-wing extremism to protect their rights. The fact of the matter i…

> Speech is ingrained in American culture on both aisles of the political spectrum until last 5-10 years.

Death threats, fraud, harassment, libel, and other harmful forms of speech have had legal consequences for much longer than that.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#222

Post by superb-owl »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #45

The thing is, it's hard to feel bad for kiwifarms. They seem to be one of the worst sites there are. But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them. Personally, I think the site being shutdown is a good thing. But it's hard to look at the fact a few corporations can remove a website from the internet and think this is good for a free and…

Freedom of speech, famously, doesn't give you the right to shout "fire" in a crowded movie theater [1]. It also doesn't give you the right to target, stalk, and harass people.

The question to me isn't why did it take Cloudflare so long to make this decision. The question is why hadn't governments stepped in and _forced_ Cloudflare to take action, given the illegal activity taking place on the site.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_the...

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#223

Post by kmeisthax »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #206
Zamaamiro wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the freedom of speech of all those they harass and dox?

Their freedom of speech isn't being denied is it? Their right to a peaceful life is being infridged but not their freedom of speech.

By this logic, there is no way you can deny someone their freedom of speech. What is the difference between someone putting you on death row for speaking out against the government versus publishing your information so that angry randos can do the same? Is the only problem with government censorship that their violence is somehow "special" and worse than other forms of violence?

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#224

Post by dcow »

nemo44x wrote: post #28

Real principled stance there from their CEO - 3 days to totally flip-flop? I mean, if your stance is we will ban content we arbitrarily find bad then just state it as such. Put into your agreement terms precisely what is and isn’t allowed. Be consistent. This “conflicted” act makes them look weak and of questionable leadership. Either take a principled stance on speech or put into your terms how you censor speech.

Big companies regress to the mean. It’s especially sad to watch it slowly happen to CF over the years.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#225

Post by superkuh »

caeril wrote: post #178
superkuh wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal? I think you mean PR team. They realized it would have an impact on income. There was obviously no legal issue.

On income? How would this work? As a CF customer, I am far more concerned with a policy or precedent of capriciously cutting off customers than a policy of defending "bad" customers.

Cloudflare/DDoS-Guard doesn't care about you. You don't do enough business. The DDOS protection company cares about the reactions of the abstract things called corporations and institutions. Corporate persons have different motives than human person do. I don't think it is controversial to say most corporations and institutions have no problem with this decision. That'd be despite what any informed IT dept. employee might believe about the situation.

So yes, they worried about their income.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#226

Post by googlryas »

prvit wrote: post #70
that_guy_iain wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't he previously say he took down the nazi site because they were saying that the reason they weren't taken down was that he agreed with them? That provides the sort of decision making process. Also, I find it hard to believe that a legal team would all of a sudden decide 3 days after they publically announce they wouldn't remove security services from a customer that one customer who has basically been the same…

He said he took down the Daily Stormer because they claimed to have friends at Cloudflare (which was true https://nitter.net/GossiTheDog/status/1565128386753843201 )

She left the company shortly thereafter...I assume when her viewpoints became known, probably couldn't keep her mouth shut after the "outrage" of not providing service to daily stormer.

It would be silly to say there are definitely no Nazis in a company above a certain size. It's easy to fire them as soon as you know about them, but a lot of shitheads know to fly under the radar, so you can't really proactively hunt them out.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#227

Post by djbebs »

fullstop wrote: post #42
nemo44x wrote: post #28

Real principled stance there from their CEO - 3 days to totally flip-flop? I mean, if your stance is we will ban content we arbitrarily find bad then just state it as such. Put into your agreement terms precisely what is and isn’t allowed. Be consistent. This “conflicted” act makes them look weak and of questionable leadership. Either take a principled stance on speech or put into your terms how you censor speech.

Kevin has been hammering on them for many days now, and for good reason. Everyone has a different line in the sand. For me, a platform designed to promote hate speech crosses that line.

Great, my line is people like you. Please disconnect from the internet.

See the problem?

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#228

Post by tsimionescu »

weare138 wrote: post #215
that_guy_iain wrote: post #45

The thing is, it's hard to feel bad for kiwifarms. They seem to be one of the worst sites there are. But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them. Personally, I think the site being shutdown is a good thing. But it's hard to look at the fact a few corporations can remove a website from the internet and think this is good for a free and…

3 people are dead because of that site. What they were doing was a crime. Criminal activity is not is not protected free speech. That's like arguing carding and SIM swapping sites are just expressing their right to free speech and should be protected.

So why are they not being prosecuted if it was a crime? DDoS is also a crime, and equates to mob justice at best in this case.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#229

Post by smoldesu »

wesleywt wrote: post #211
that_guy_iain wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their freedom of speech isn't being denied is it? Their right to a peaceful life is being infridged but not their freedom of speech.

Kiwifarms goal is to remove the freedom of speech of LGBTQ people online. Is it okay for them to this?

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