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Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

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Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#81

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS »

superchroma wrote: post #20

I can't decide whether this is dumber than Dodge making a huge deal about how their new EV Dodge Charger (car not car-charger, oh my god, what a branding screw up) makes authentic loud V8 noises, but they're definitely both stupid. Can we just fast forward to the future where EVs glide around silently and people look both ways before crossing the road?

> EV Dodge Charger (car not car-charger, oh my god, what a branding screw up)

To be fair, the Charger name was created long before it meant "thing you use to plug into an electric device", and the Charger is a very popular vehicle in the Dodge lineup. And you don't abandon popular models without generating negative PR. So Dodge didn't really have a choice.

Plus, they can use the pun in witty commercials.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#82

Post by trasz »

lm28469 wrote: post #46
superchroma wrote: post #20

I can't decide whether this is dumber than Dodge making a huge deal about how their new EV Dodge Charger (car not car-charger, oh my god, what a branding screw up) makes authentic loud V8 noises, but they're definitely both stupid. Can we just fast forward to the future where EVs glide around silently and people look both ways before crossing the road?

> Can we just fast forward to the future where EVs glide around silently and people look both ways before crossing the road? Getting rid of 50% of your car detecting senses doesn't seem like a good idea

Is this still a problem now that we have auto braking?

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#83

Post by manholio »

nabilhat wrote: post #62

This is a neat example though of how arbitrary EV drivetrains are. A Toyota marketing exec's (just guessing) FUD about imagined consumer FUD turns into, why don't we just ramp down torque in notches in relation to road speed increments? Of course anyone who buys this is going to try it once then leave it in all-the-torque-all-the-time mode, but that's not the point. I can't say I've met a single three pedal afficiona…

Electric engines are capable of insane torque, but prolonged operation in such a mode is far from efficient, cool and preferable from a reliability standpoint. Two seconds at the green light - yes, plowing your field with a Tesla - no.

So I can see it making sense for vehicles that have have two modes of operation, for example a tractor or all-terain vehicle that also need to work on public roads at relatively high speeds. A manual gear box is ideal in such a setting, because you seldom need to use it and it's very simple, cost effective and reliable. In any case, only useful for an extreme niche of applications.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#84

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS »

consp wrote: post #16
Someone1234 wrote: post #2

Seems very similar to paddle shifters in a gas CVT. There's no mechanical connection between the "clutch peddle" and "shifter" to the actual transmission, it is all just fed into a computer and a simulation is created to give the driver a warm fizzy feeling. If this makes people feel better during the transitional phase, I guess that counts for something, but this is a manual car simulation only.

My Current car does this when the the petrol engine kicks in (Hybrid with CVT), it does a tiny bit of "gear simulation" with the engine if you floor it and it uses the petrol engine together with the electric one and it adds a bit more of fake engine sound though the speakers to make it more obvious. Strange thing is they chose to only have "three gears", no matter at what speed you do it the max is two shifts. Not t…

Nissan does this with their CVTs as well. Apparently they found that people didn't really like the "all one gear" feel, so they programmed in "gear changes" where the CVT changes ratio like an automatic. You still get the CVT advantage when going up a hill or stomping on the accelerator, though.

They've been phasing out their CVTs in favor of traditional automatics, though.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#85

Post by mint2 »

rthomas6 wrote: post #32
ytdytvhxgydvhh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm still waiting for someone to make a "battery on wheels", an electric car with no extra bells and whistles. Didn’t you already find it with the Leaf? Or is a base-model Leaf still full of lots of unnecessary farkle?

Yes. But they stopped making it like that. The new Leaf base models are $28k minimum, have lane assist, auto braking, high beam assist, smartphone integration, 8" multi touch display, voice recognition, and more. I paid around $12k in 2017 for a used 2015 Leaf. You can't do that anymore.

> auto braking, high beam assist

Many of those bells and whistles you don’t want are designed to protect other road users as much or more than yourself.

Not wanting the bells and whistles that only effect the driver and not others is fine, but it’s a bit selfish to discard the others.

And yeah Some people will be like “I am responsible and don’t need those” but 50% of those will be the ones that need them most and it’s hard to tell who is who.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#86

Post by yywwbbn »

spellboots wrote: post #80
gpt5 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counter argument is that European vehicles are vastly using manual gear, despite the fact that except for a small minority, no one cares about the potential difference in torque. There is just a lot of people that are used the a certain solution and are resistant to change.

There are economic and regulatory factors involved, it is more complex than people being resistant to change which no doubt makes up part of it. In the UK, for example, automatic cars are more expensive to buy and insure [1]. They also tend to be more expensive to learn how to drive as instructors mostly have manual cars to teach with. This incentivises new drivers towards manual cars, especially as younger drivers a…

I find it hard to imagine it would take significantly more than 15 minutes for most people to ‘learn’ how to drive an automatic car even if they only drove a manual before.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#87

Post by mannykannot »

superchroma wrote: post #20

I can't decide whether this is dumber than Dodge making a huge deal about how their new EV Dodge Charger (car not car-charger, oh my god, what a branding screw up) makes authentic loud V8 noises, but they're definitely both stupid. Can we just fast forward to the future where EVs glide around silently and people look both ways before crossing the road?

The acquisition of a patent by a major corporation is not much evidence that it will ever be implemented; it amounts to a relatively cheap option on being able to do so.

Personally, this one seems about as appealing as bringing back the manual ignition advance on gas-engined cars.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#88

Post by robryk »

nabilhat wrote: post #62

This is a neat example though of how arbitrary EV drivetrains are. A Toyota marketing exec's (just guessing) FUD about imagined consumer FUD turns into, why don't we just ramp down torque in notches in relation to road speed increments? Of course anyone who buys this is going to try it once then leave it in all-the-torque-all-the-time mode, but that's not the point. I can't say I've met a single three pedal afficiona…

In snowy conditions you don't actually want all the torque available: then you'd want to control the torque applied instead of the power delivered when starting to move (similar to placing a restriction on the top torque by shifting into second gear on manual shift cars).

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#89

Post by robryk »

yywwbbn wrote: post #86
spellboots wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are economic and regulatory factors involved, it is more complex than people being resistant to change which no doubt makes up part of it. In the UK, for example, automatic cars are more expensive to buy and insure [1]. They also tend to be more expensive to learn how to drive as instructors mostly have manual cars to teach with. This incentivises new drivers towards manual cars, especially as younger drivers a…

I find it hard to imagine it would take significantly more than 15 minutes for most people to ‘learn’ how to drive an automatic car even if they only drove a manual before.

The UK authorities agree with you: if you pass the exam with a manual car you can use both, but if you pass it with an automatic one, you can only drive automatic ones.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#90

Post by Hexcles »

nabilhat wrote: post #62

This is a neat example though of how arbitrary EV drivetrains are. A Toyota marketing exec's (just guessing) FUD about imagined consumer FUD turns into, why don't we just ramp down torque in notches in relation to road speed increments? Of course anyone who buys this is going to try it once then leave it in all-the-torque-all-the-time mode, but that's not the point. I can't say I've met a single three pedal afficiona…

You're over generalizing. Not all enthusiasts value the same point. For some including myself, it's not about acceleration or speed. Automatic (DCT and the new ZF8) has long surpassed manual transmission in almost all aspects of performance. It's similar to how some people like manual espresso machines, film cameras, etc. It's a hobby and you enjoy the process. See how the newest Koenigsegg goes great length to make this weird automatic manual.
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