Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not the speech that people are objecting to, it's the part where they get people killed.
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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
171–180 of 1001 posts
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reminder: a 13 year old minor survivor begged Twitter to remove a video sexually exploiting him. Twitter reviewed the content and said NO. They had his government ID showing that he was a minor at the time. The video had over 160k views. Over 2k retweets.
This was also wrong of them.
Sure, the point is that this was not an isolated case and Twitter was not nuked off the internet.
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you actually browsed them? When this thing hit the front page of HN I checked it out and while they say a lot of nasty stuff about people there I couldn't find an occurrence of organising online or offline harassment.
> Have you actually browsed them? When this thing hit the front page of HN I checked it out and while they say a lot of nasty stuff about people there I couldn't find an occurrence of organising online or offline harassment. That is the organizing of harassment. That's what it looks like. People are very rarely dumb enough to post "I think we should commit a crime, who's with me" on the Internet. Post enough slurs ab…
This is shifting the goal posts.
The original claim was that it posed a direct actionable threat to someone's personal safety. This claim was not substantiated. Now you're shifting it to, "unflattering words are a form of violence."
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
I often hear this argument, but the US is currently on a much clearer trajectory towards increased authoritarianism than most EU countries/CANZUK despite all of this freedom. The situation is more complicated than just straightforward definitions of what freedom is. What really matters is not edge cases where some forum or other is banned, but whether your society is populated with authoritarian ideologies and to wha…
> What really matters is not edge cases… That’s what 100% matters. I’ve seen multiple civil rights attorneys say this because that’s who they go after to set the precedent to erode everyone’s rights. So they have to defend kiddypornographers and neo-nazis and everyone else common people don’t care if the government tramples all over their rights. Like the iPhone hacking thing the fbi was trying to force apple to do,…
I understand this concept, but that's not the point. The GP was condescendingly referring to people outside of the US as being unable to understand freedom of speech or slippery legal slopes. We do in fact understand it, it's just that we don't all agree that the American cultural model is conducive to freedom overall, as evidenced by the current state of the country.
It's like a person smugly telling you their hydrangeas are better watered than yours while you are trying to get them to notice that there is clearly a house fire starting in one of their bedrooms.
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not the speech that people are objecting to, it's the part where they get people killed.
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It's not that members don't take credit for it, it's that the mods lock and delete threads when they do. E.g. https://mobile.twitter.com/achungus1235/status/1561787513819...
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder what their suspension criteria is. Maybe it's just "too much bad press"?
Nah, too much Nazi is their line I believe. Pro Nazi speech is heavily banned in Russia and it is a Russian company.
Strangely enough Russia is quite a transphobic country itself where people like Keffals are thrown into prison so I'm surprised they would take action against something they blame the West for
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/23/putin-gender...
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#177The thing is, it's hard to feel bad for kiwifarms. They seem to be one of the worst sites there are. But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them. Personally, I think the site being shutdown is a good thing. But it's hard to look at the fact a few corporations can remove a website from the internet and think this is good for a free and…
> But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them.
This is not true at all, and educating yourself on the matter is trivial. "Free speech absolutism" is a very niche, unpopular, and unrealistic (some forms of speech ultimately limit other's speech, e.g. the dead don't speak) form of free speech.
Spreading this pro-KF propaganda needs to stop.
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
My headcanon is that Price wanted to take a stand, but the legal team actually took a better look at the situation because of the pressure and had a long meeting, explaining to him why it's a really bad idea. I hope we learn what really happened in a few years. Reason: twice I sent messages directly to appropriate teams at (large-companies) with something like "are you aware of what your ceo is doing at (link)" which…
Legal? I think you mean PR team. They realized it would have an impact on income. There was obviously no legal issue.
On income? How would this work?
As a CF customer, I am far more concerned with a policy or precedent of capriciously cutting off customers than a policy of defending "bad" customers.
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#179This, I think, is a useful perspective for all those here talking about free speech: https://slate.com/technology/2022/09/kiwi-farms-cloudlfare-a... The point is that if you're using your speech to silence people, not by disproving their arguments but through terror and the destruction of their reputation and social network, when you silence people by lying about them, your speech is a threat to free speech. By prote…
"Using your speech to silence people" is very vague, "the destruction of their reputation and social network" and "lying about them" could refer to any case of cancel culture. These things are bad of course, bad for freedom of speech in a broad millian sense[1], but they are way too vague for cloudflare to ban any forum that has speech like this (which is any forum I'm aware of, including HN).
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're being gullible here. Look at what was actually on that site and the many others that have been shut down rather than relying on reports from their enemies (oh wait, the whole point is to make it so you can't do this). When this hit Hacker news I actually went onto kiwifarms to find out what it was like because I suspected it would be killed soon. The descriptions given by most hackernews commentators d…
Right, because they would let someone who created an account in the last month or two and has no presence into their hunting lobby?
I am sometimes very worried about the apparent naivete of people who think this way, and then I am even more worried thinking that they might just be intentionally obtuse.