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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#71

Post by squabbles »

_dain_ wrote: post #48
Y-bar wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hosting providers MUST be forced to provide a platform for everyone and anyone against the will of the provider. It SHALL NOT matter how many people their customers brag about driving to suicide. Nor should the hosting provider take into consideration harassment campaigns orchestrated by users of their platforms. -- Stallman, probably? /endsarcasm

Quoted post unavailable.

You're right, but people don't care about the truth. Personally I doubt that keffals is behind the attacks, since the site has been facing them for ages. A site like the KiwiFarms that compiles unsavory deeds is going to attract the ire of those same people who will do unsavory things to get that information hidden.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#72

Post by prvit »

flumpcakes wrote: post #56

I personally have never seen any content on Kiwifarms that would lead to statements as we saw the other day from Cloudflare. It is a place where people say some horrible stuff, but I think 4chan is worse (including CSAM) and they are protected by Cloudflare as far as I know. I don't know much about the people who post there, other than that they say some nasty things. I have also seen such content on Facebook and Twi…

How is 4chan worse? They rapidly take down any CSAM and anything that vaguely resembles a raid. Most KF threads wouldn't survive on today's 4chan for even an hour.

This 12 years old comment describes the situation in 2010 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1947648 , although neglects to mention that things were this way due to strict moderation on 4chan.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#73

Post by sgent »

Borgz wrote: post #26
dmitri_ignat wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rare, but it has happened before. 8chan/8kun and Hamas managed to get suspended by DG.

I wonder what their suspension criteria is. Maybe it's just "too much bad press"?

Nah, too much Nazi is their line I believe. Pro Nazi speech is heavily banned in Russia and it is a Russian company.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#74

Post by prvit »

Krisando wrote: post #58
tony-allan wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that a TOR service is easy to DDOS. Anyone know if that's true?

You can DDoS TOR it self, but not a specific service easily.

Complete nonsense. You can easily DoS a specific service by flooding it with rendezvous requests.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#75

Post by flumpcakes »

prvit wrote: post #72
flumpcakes wrote: post #56

I personally have never seen any content on Kiwifarms that would lead to statements as we saw the other day from Cloudflare. It is a place where people say some horrible stuff, but I think 4chan is worse (including CSAM) and they are protected by Cloudflare as far as I know. I don't know much about the people who post there, other than that they say some nasty things. I have also seen such content on Facebook and Twi…

How is 4chan worse? They rapidly take down any CSAM and anything that vaguely resembles a raid. Most KF threads wouldn't survive on today's 4chan for even an hour. This 12 years old comment describes the situation in 2010 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1947648 , although neglects to mention that things were this way due to strict moderation on 4chan.

I, personally, have seen much worse on 4chan than I have on Kiwifarms. If I read the Cloudflare blog post and didn't know which site it was referring to I would have put 95% of my money on it being 4chan over Kiwifarms.

I am not an omnipotent arbiter of what is bad or worse, this is my own subjective opinion. I just haven't seen anything on Kiwifarms that would call for such a response. It made it seem like we were hours away from people dying.

I guess as an example though:

> they rapidly take down any CSAM

I haven't seen that posted to Kiwifarms in the first place, regardless if 4chan has a quick response.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#76

Post by heartbeats »

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #65
tony-allan wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that a TOR service is easy to DDOS. Anyone know if that's true?

Tor services get DDOS’d all of the time - you generally have a single host somewhere that is the first hop in relaying traffic back to the service and that is easy to overwhelm. There is a hackish way to have several of those hosts but I think it tops out at a dozen. You lose a lot of audience going to Tor so might not be worth it.

No, that's not true. The first hop (last from the service's PoV) is basically randomly selected. Unless you restrict it, there will be thousands of possible IPs.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#77

Post by _dain_ »

viraptor wrote: post #61
_dain_ wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Mhmm... They have nothing to do with that behaviour. wink They're just joking about the self harm and suicide. wink The swatting of the discussed people is a completely unrelated coincidence. wink wink It's a terrible art people master. It's like the worst hateful accounts on twitter which are extremely clean - you couldn't report a single tweet, yet we know exactly what they mean. Of course this account for explicit…

>The swatting of the discussed people is a completely unrelated coincidence.

yeah, because it's so difficult to just SWAT someone and claim you're someone you're not? The MTG swatter literally used text-to-speech and said roughly "I'm from Kiwifarms and this is my username: ...". why would anyone go to the trouble of disguising their voice only to tell police who they really are? Null made it very clear that he cooperates with law enforcement if illegal content is put on the site. if it was actually that user, he'd be in a jail cell by now. there was no discussion of anything like this in any thread prior to the attack. it's so obviously a hoax.

why do people have such a fucking blind spot about this? it's the 911 equivalent of a phishing email with a forged sender address. it's trivial.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#78

Post by pjc50 »

concordDance wrote: post #55
Borgz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if they decide to become platforms exclusively dedicated to harrassment, stop prohibiting and removing that type of content, and actively encourage it. Until then, it doesn't seem likely.

Have you actually browsed them? When this thing hit the front page of HN I checked it out and while they say a lot of nasty stuff about people there I couldn't find an occurrence of organising online or offline harassment.

> Have you actually browsed them? When this thing hit the front page of HN I checked it out and while they say a lot of nasty stuff about people there I couldn't find an occurrence of organising online or offline harassment.

That is the organizing of harassment. That's what it looks like. People are very rarely dumb enough to post "I think we should commit a crime, who's with me" on the Internet.

Post enough slurs about queer people and somehow the harrasment happens without anyone having been explicitly told to do it.

Post enough slurs about Muslims and someone will eventually shoot up a mosque in New Zealand.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#79

Post by [deleted] »

viraptor wrote: post #36
nemo44x wrote: post #28

Real principled stance there from their CEO - 3 days to totally flip-flop? I mean, if your stance is we will ban content we arbitrarily find bad then just state it as such. Put into your agreement terms precisely what is and isn’t allowed. Be consistent. This “conflicted” act makes them look weak and of questionable leadership. Either take a principled stance on speech or put into your terms how you censor speech.

My headcanon is that Price wanted to take a stand, but the legal team actually took a better look at the situation because of the pressure and had a long meeting, explaining to him why it's a really bad idea. I hope we learn what really happened in a few years. Reason: twice I sent messages directly to appropriate teams at (large-companies) with something like "are you aware of what your ceo is doing at (link)" which…

[deleted]

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#80

Post by heartbeats »

prvit wrote: post #74
Krisando wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can DDoS TOR it self, but not a specific service easily.

Complete nonsense. You can easily DoS a specific service by flooding it with rendezvous requests.

That's far from "easy" - if it were so simple, people would be able to extort big money from drug markets for doing it.
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