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Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

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Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#91

Post by t6jvcereio »

pyrodactyl wrote: post #55
kleinsch wrote: post #22

Your pay is based on the cost to hire your replacement. That’s it. There’s no crazy conspiracies, there’s no moral failing, they’re not running a calculator of how much value you generate. Would it sap your motivation to learn there are people doing your same job at FAANGs making double what you make? Or that some other job makes more money than you? Location based pay is just another variable. As with everything in…

Its not a crazy conspiracy, I know it's pretty clear why it's being done. And I know I can't do anything about it other than look for new opportunities. But should location based pay be just accepted because that's the norm? There are variables that can't be used to do discriminate like age, gender, race, sexual orientation etc. We've accepted equal pay for equal work in these cases. Is it that far fetched that even…

You know why, and yet you were asking why.

> If the company is willing to pay me that amount in a different location, why can't it pay me the same here?

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#92

Post by mutt2016 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #81

If I am hiring outside the US, I'm doing it to save money. I'm willing to accept the downsides -- schedule differences, language barriers, etc, in order to save money. Otherwise I would just hire someone in the US. So if a foreign dev were to tell me I had to pay the US rates, I'd pass. I think you should negotiate for as much as you can, but it is unrealistic to benchmark yourself against US employees of a US compan…

Same, and I hold certain cultural biases too. Which is horrible, but also learned experience. Certain countries have stronger low level programmers, some cultures make for poor leadership traits, while others seem to create amazing UI/UX skills. Understanding there are no absolutes, and people are people, I just continue to observe some countries produce interesting niche skills.

Like in my home town, C# is king.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#94

Post by contravariant »

chrsig wrote: post #79
contravariant wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is the rationale there? Why wouldn't companies just hire the people willing to work for a lower salary?

because it's not the only factor in hiring? competency and likelihood to succeed in the role does still play a role

Sure, but why is a company willing to suddenly pay more for someone depending on where they live? I get that competency and likelihood to succeed play a role, but if you have those I don't see why location should play a role at all.

I'm not saying they should give more/better offers to people in 'cheap' locations, I'm saying location shouldn't influence the offer at all.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#95

Post by quickthrower2 »

Kind of depends what you are getting paid, but if it is less then $100k say, you can easily find remote jobs that pay more, play them off against each other. The companies are using sharp business practice to get you as cheap as possible, you can do the same to get as much as possible. Apply for 100 remote jobs, interview, smash the interviews, ask for top $ from all of them.

See https://remoteok.com/, etc.

If on he other hand, you are paid $200k and the colleagues are being paid $400k ... well you are well paid, might be harder to get a fully remote pay rise, but not impossible I think.

Now lets say you are paid $50k for argument sake, and you talk to your boss saying you want $100k and you can get that elsewhere. They would be crazy to let you go as $100k is still probably less than they are paying in the US if you are doing the same job.

What I have learned is the 'policy' evaporates under enough pressure. Of course they may still say no, in which case look around.

If they are paying you less than you are worth, they are not your friend, don't feel bad about moving to another job immediately.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#96

Post by withinboredom »

rootusrootus wrote: post #81

If I am hiring outside the US, I'm doing it to save money. I'm willing to accept the downsides -- schedule differences, language barriers, etc, in order to save money. Otherwise I would just hire someone in the US. So if a foreign dev were to tell me I had to pay the US rates, I'd pass. I think you should negotiate for as much as you can, but it is unrealistic to benchmark yourself against US employees of a US compan…

And what are you going to do if that dev moves to the US while working for you (such as on a partner visa)?

Are you going to pay them more or fire them? I don’t work for less as an American Expat, I work for how much I’m worth (which is a lot more than local wages) and I live where I live because the money let’s my wife stay at home, in a nice house in a nice neighborhood instead of us both working our asses off just to have a decent house in a shitty neighborhood.

If you want to pay local wages, go be a local and hire locals.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#98

Post by cauefcr »

soueuls wrote: post #60

The reverse would be unfair as well. If someone have to live in San Francisco to make 250k/year but pay a high rent etc. And you make 250k/year living in Ho Chi Minh that would be unfair to them. And would be a little bit unfair to your local people, the selected few (employees) able to work remotely would literally make 80x time the local salary. There is no way to solve this problem, if you want your compensation t…

value === value, fairness was never a feature in capitalism.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#99

Post by BeetleB »

pyrodactyl wrote: post #71
pkrotich wrote: post #30

I agree with you that it's unfair and senseless but it's market dynamic (supply and demand) with capitalism bend to it. There are probably hundrends of people with your capabilities, where you're now, willing to work at your current pay scale and probably thousands elsewhere in poorer places willing to work for much less than you. Not to mention even more - who are as capable as you're - but lack the opportunity you…

Thanks for this, helps me that people understand me and I'm not being very unreasonable. From what I've gotten from my discussions on my post is 1) I will start looking for contract work. Not going to be easy, but the best way forward. 2) Use some of the negotiation techniques mentioned like bringing up the fact I'm not competing locally, but internationally 3) Negotiate with my company and threaten to leave? Not ful…

I would not go with option 1 until:

1. You have more experience (why would someone pick you as a contractor?)

2. Get better at negotiation.

Your concerns are valid, but that you didn't have the answers is a signal you're not wise enough to go into the contracting world.

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