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Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

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Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#221

Post by TMWNN »

firecall wrote: post #139
gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

It's interesting you mention electronics... Just this week I called out a mobile mechanic from our state automobile club here in Australia, to replace the battery in my old 911. He was really nice bloke, older guy, and we got chatting about cars. Now he reckoned that he has the most problems with European cars, most of which are considered premium or mid level brands in Australia. Always putting Euro cars on the back…

>Now he reckoned that he has the most problems with European cars, most of which are considered premium or mid level brands in Australia.

Was this a surprise to you? Here in the US it's well known that European cars (including the expensive brands) are across the board worst in reliability, Japanese cars are the most reliable, and the US brands are in between.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#222

Post by zizee »

worik wrote: post #107
zizee wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are Australia and Canada doing in there? Australia has… Atlassian? There are plenty of wellknown tech/software companies originating in Australia. Xero, Freelancer, Canva, REA Group, MYOB, Airtasker, BigCommerce, Afterpay... Many foreign software companies have development teams in Aus as well. Google, Zendesk, Square, Squarespace spring to mind. https://www.smartcompany.com.au/technology/the-top-50-tech-c...

Xero is from New Zealand

Like Crowded House and pavlova, Australians will claim anything good originating in New Zealand as our own :-p

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#223

Post by Yoric »

aksss wrote: post #93
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many ways this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. An organization thinks software engineers aren't very important. And it doesn't pay the sort of salaries you need to get the top talent. So it doesn't have any top-tier software engineers, and their software team struggles to deliver valuable projects. And you can see this in their hiring. All full of interns. I remember when VW was advertising a “software school”. T…

but free , ammaright?

I don't know. I come from a European university. When I was faced with US or UK students (I've been both an academic and a professional dev), I was scared by how little many of them actually knew. They were much better than us at communicating, much more self-assured, but were lacking other key skills.

:shrug:

That's one of the things that are really hard to compare, I guess.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#224

Post by redox99 »

rapsey wrote: post #169
melony wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just the software, so many cars don't even have a functional touchscreen while requiring use of it for many core features. Hyundai for example like to use really low quality touch screens that are even slower than my old Nokia's resistive display. What is the point of pan-and-zoom in a GPS maps app if the screen can barely keep up in real-time?

Cars have very high temperature requirements for screens. Cars and their screens must survive very hot and very cold temperatures and last decades. Keep in mind the screen is right there under the sun on a hot day. A fancy beautiful tablet screen would last a very short time under car conditions.

Many cars have decent touch screens so it's clearly something doable.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#225

Post by bambax »

gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

This is all completely true. EU salaries for programmers are a joke. In most of the EU, people still think programming consists in punching cards, following a pattern designed by somebody else (who is that person, nobody quite knows).

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#226

Post by TMWNN »

worik wrote: post #111
gumby wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those outrageously high FAANG salaries occurs because of ... 2) Excessive surveillance... This is an absurd and lazy take. There are plenty of high paying software jobs in the US that have nothing to do with surveillance (e.g. the AWS part of Amazon, Apple, SpaceX, all sorts of robotics companies, etc). Europe's concerns in this area are a strength that they should be taking advantage of. FWIW I think the surveilla…

The point was, if I read it correctly, that comparing salaries is only part of the picture. There is a yawning cultural divide between the USA and the rest of the world. Especially the non-English speaking world. I am in an English speaking country that slips under the shadow of the cloud cast by the cultural hegemony of the USA (Aotearoa) and when I look around at my lifestyle, my friends, community, and the problem…

>I am in an English speaking country that slips under the shadow of the cloud cast by the cultural hegemony of the USA (Aotearoa) and when I look around at my lifestyle, my friends, community, and the problems we have as a country and society - salary would not be enough to move me.

There's nothing wrong with making such a decision. Many others make such a decision, whether in an English-speaking country or not. In the US itself, many make such a decision to stay in their home cities and states as opposed to moving to Silicon Valley.

But you also must recognize that you are in the minority. It is a fact that FAANG and comparable companies' Canadian offices are almost entirely staffed by non-Canadians that are parked there because they are either waiting for, or cannot receive, a US visa. Yes, there are some Canadians who want to stay close to home in Toronto or Vancouver, but they are very, very, very few.

Canadians have, thanks to treaties, a pretty simple path to working in the US. I think Australians also have a unique treaty in this regard. All other nationals have, to greater or lesser degree, various hurdles to clear before moving to the US. If tomorrow New Zealand signed a treaty with the US that made moving to the US for work as easy as it is for Canadians, how many of your coworkers and peers would stay?

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#227

Post by [deleted] »

leobg wrote: post #191
dependsontheq wrote: post #8

I wouldn't call it "woes". I have been driving an VW ID 3 since last year, it runs their custom Android OS System and should have all of the latest features. It has been quite an experience. The car is fine, basic driving functions are fine, even the driver assist features are generally fine if they are running. The software running all the displays and the "augmented" heads up display is ridiculous. The car one did…

Ze Germans and their blue lights. Seems like that is the first thing they discuss when they design a new electric vehicle. “Where do we put the blue lights?”

[deleted]

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#228

Post by himinlomax »

worik wrote: post #114
kareemsabri wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how paying software engineers higher salaries means other people need to live "perilous lives". You could just lower your EBIDTA a bit. Software engineers in the US aren't rich because of janitors being underpaid or something.

But computer programmers are over paid and janitors under paid. It is because if all the computer programmers went away the world would limp on. If all the janitors went away we would be swimming in shit.

Surgeons are over paid, garbage men are under paid.

Except that should you need surgery, you'd care who the surgeon would be, but not who would be handling the bags of medical waste.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#230

Post by wumpus »

up2isomorphism wrote: post #186

Tesla does not make money without subsidy, and their car is barely usable: none of people I know just own one Tesla, they all need some ice car to back up.

Tesla did make money for a couple of quarters only because of incentives, now they're solidly profitable.

It's fun to watch how many years people will post this former "fact" for!

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