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Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

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Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#101

Post by fastball »

gumby wrote: post #72
astrange wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMHO the only countries that really understand software at both a technical and business value add level are US, AUS, Canada, China, with India less so but in that group and Japan just barely getting in. What are Australia and Canada doing in there? Australia has… Atlassian? Besides that, I’ve only heard of developers in Aus/Canada/Japan being well paid if they work for US companies like Google or are parked there…

pedalpete responded about Australia and Canada. Japan considers programming a blue collar task so pays accordingly (though there are exceptions, like Sony Computer Entertainment). But culturally the companies tend to understand the role of software better and have for a while. Remember how great the Keitei were in the late 90s/early 2000s compared to anywhere else in the world?

Japan sees software as "blue collar" because they put software in everything. e.g. toilets, which basically nobody else on earth does.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#102

Post by mardifoufs »

marssaxman wrote: post #91
gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

I think you have just convinced me to buy German cars exclusively from now on; I very much do not want a car which is "just a computer with wheels" - the less software in the car, the better!

Oh you will still get a car with plenty of software, and the car will depend on it just as much as a Tesla. It's just that it's going to be badly made, buggy and not well integrated.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#103

Post by kareemsabri »

sgjohnson wrote: post #86
kareemsabri wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft is in the same boat. Virtually no users of their products are actually their customers. Apple has less than 10% of the PC market. What do you think the rest of them are running?

> Apple has less than 10% of the PC market. What do you think the rest of them are running? If you didn't pay for your copy of Windows (which you most likely didn't, far more likely it was provided to you in another way, such as OEM or your employer), you are not Microsoft's customer. Likewise, if you got the free license from upgrading, you're also not their customer. Pirated Windows? Not their customer. Bought one…

I think it's a very Valley-centric opinion to think Microsoft doesn't have any consumer customers. Even putting aside all their other end user products consumers buy (XBox, the utterly dominant Office).

I certainly don't agree with your definition of a customer. People who buy a PC with a Windows OS on it know it's a Windows OS, and make that choice willingly. It's like pretending nobody is an Android customer because they buy their phones from Samsung not Google.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#104

Post by ClumsyPilot »

jws wrote: post #34
amluto wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But ("FSD" excepted) they spend more of their attention on what really matters: treating their vehicle as a modern electronic device. Yet even Tesla does a rather bad job at this — they consider it to be a modern electronic device and ignore the wheels. OTA updates regularly change the UI in a way that is difficult and dangerous to learn when the wheels are spinning. Even when familiar with it, the very basics are…

It is well worth any Tesla driver's time to spend two minutes reading the list of voice commands. Once you have a grip on the vocabulary and structure you can just tell the car to do what you want for dozens of common tasks. (Hint: It's a "seat warmer", not a "butt heater".) That's the good news, the bad news is that I still haven't figure out how to turn off the stupid cowbell when I accidentally bonk the right leve…

The idea that instead of turning a tactile dial I need to look away from the road to adjust temperature or volume if music, or I need to speak, is unacceptable to me. I consider ut terrible in terms of safety and UI.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#105

Post by kareemsabri »

gumby wrote: post #99
kareemsabri wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft is in the same boat. Virtually no users of their products are actually their customers. Apple has less than 10% of the PC market. What do you think the rest of them are running?

The point is that the majority of their revenue comes from corporate enterprise. This is one reason Ballmer didn’t understand the iPhone: his customers (corporate IT) wanted the windows phone but no actual users did. Microsoft was taken by surprise by the “BYO movement”

I agree with all that. I still think Microsoft has lots of consumer customers though.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#106

Post by worik »

amluto wrote: post #22
gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

> But ("FSD" excepted) they spend more of their attention on what really matters: treating their vehicle as a modern electronic device. Yet even Tesla does a rather bad job at this — they consider it to be a modern electronic device and ignore the wheels. OTA updates regularly change the UI in a way that is difficult and dangerous to learn when the wheels are spinning. Even when familiar with it, the very basics are…

> simple, reliable, and boring

Please. Not just car makers, but all important software functions

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#107

Post by worik »

zizee wrote: post #84
astrange wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMHO the only countries that really understand software at both a technical and business value add level are US, AUS, Canada, China, with India less so but in that group and Japan just barely getting in. What are Australia and Canada doing in there? Australia has… Atlassian? Besides that, I’ve only heard of developers in Aus/Canada/Japan being well paid if they work for US companies like Google or are parked there…

> What are Australia and Canada doing in there? Australia has… Atlassian? There are plenty of wellknown tech/software companies originating in Australia. Xero, Freelancer, Canva, REA Group, MYOB, Airtasker, BigCommerce, Afterpay... Many foreign software companies have development teams in Aus as well. Google, Zendesk, Square, Squarespace spring to mind. https://www.smartcompany.com.au/technology/the-top-50-tech-c...

Xero is from New Zealand

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#108

Post by worik »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #69
hef19898 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the web / ad space you mean.

Nope. The biggest european software company is, what, the german SAP. And SAP is tiny compared to US software companies. Europe has something like six companies in the top 100 software companies when ranked by market cap and only one in the top 10 (the german SAP). That's hardly being a "significant player in the non web / non ad space".

A lot of IT infrastructure comes from Europe

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#109

Post by ClumsyPilot »

kareemsabri wrote: post #32
geodel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should try to reconcile the facts that those outrageously high FAANG salaries occurs because of 1) Near monopoly in that sector 2) Excessive surveillance and tracking users 3) Increasing inequality between haves and have nots. And non-FAANG type IT worker are also paid relatively high at the cost of other workers living perilous lives. So unless Europeans really start cherishing these "values". They are not go…

Can you explain how paying software engineers higher salaries means other people need to live "perilous lives". You could just lower your EBIDTA a bit. Software engineers in the US aren't rich because of janitors being underpaid or something.

indeed, if you are gonna be mad at someone having too much of the pie, at least be mad a people who actually do have most of the pie

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#110

Post by KerrAvon »

eightysixfour wrote: post #41
jws wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is well worth any Tesla driver's time to spend two minutes reading the list of voice commands. Once you have a grip on the vocabulary and structure you can just tell the car to do what you want for dozens of common tasks. (Hint: It's a "seat warmer", not a "butt heater".) That's the good news, the bad news is that I still haven't figure out how to turn off the stupid cowbell when I accidentally bonk the right leve…

> It's a "seat warmer", not a "butt heater". “Heat my ass” works fine for me.

Do Teslas seriously accept that? I guess that’s what being moved to Texas gets you.
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