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Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

bloomberg.com

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Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#191

Post by leobg »

dependsontheq wrote: post #8

I wouldn't call it "woes". I have been driving an VW ID 3 since last year, it runs their custom Android OS System and should have all of the latest features. It has been quite an experience. The car is fine, basic driving functions are fine, even the driver assist features are generally fine if they are running. The software running all the displays and the "augmented" heads up display is ridiculous. The car one did…

Ze Germans and their blue lights. Seems like that is the first thing they discuss when they design a new electric vehicle. “Where do we put the blue lights?”

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#192

Post by dmitriid »

gumby wrote: post #181
dmitriid wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless someone shows European companies are more profitable They are. Most US "innovative competitive startups" are losing hundreds of millions, and often billions of dollars a year, for decades. Europe (thankfully) doesn't want to do that. And "grossly underpaid software developers" enjoy a high quality of life on par with the rest of the population (universal healthcare, extended parental leave, vacations etc.)

> Most US "innovative competitive startups" are losing hundreds of millions, and often billions of dollars a year, for decades. That isn’t actually true. A few certainly are, and they make great press fodder. But most don’t have that luxury. Actually it’s a burden: you suffer much more dilution.

> That isn’t actually true. A few certainly are, and they make great press fodder

The ones HN like to point at usually are. E.g. basically all of YCombinator companies.

> But most don’t have that luxury.

Thise that don't have the luxury are likely to have salaries more in line with European counterparts.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#193

Post by gumby »

zxienin wrote: post #123
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many ways this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. An organization thinks software engineers aren't very important. And it doesn't pay the sort of salaries you need to get the top talent. So it doesn't have any top-tier software engineers, and their software team struggles to deliver valuable projects. And you can see this in their hiring. All full of interns. I remember when VW was advertising a “software school”. T…

> do you know how bad German universities are? I am surprised from this quoted comment. Are German unis really bad? Why is there such a perception?

German universities are mostly so-so but that is true everywhere. There are some very good professors all over Europe as well.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#194

Post by [deleted] »

gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

[deleted]

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#195

Post by bennysomething »

gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

How on earth can someone be offended by their son in laws good salary!?

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#197

Post by thwoeiru3423fa »

gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

The trouble is that everyone is clubbed together in "IT". Roboticists, distributed-systems experts, ML folks everyone is linguistically the same as someone who does IT support.

This being the case, it's not surprising that people don't understand the value of things: while they use Apple/Android etc. their immediate association with "IT" is that lowly dork who fixes their computer.

You see this in India too. From a industry full of low-level "IT-coolies" a few decades back, the aspirational places to work now are the "product" companies, where you don't just do grunt work.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#198

Post by panick21_ »

up2isomorphism wrote: post #186

Tesla does not make money without subsidy, and their car is barely usable: none of people I know just own one Tesla, they all need some ice car to back up.

Nonsense. Tesla has industry leading margin and they actually get less subsidies then many other car companies. Tesla while selling 1/10 the cars of Ford/GM has has profits higher then those companies combined, or will very soon.

That everybody has an ICE backup is just not true whatever your personal opinion is.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#199

Post by chubs »

userbinator wrote: post #100
marssaxman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have just convinced me to buy German cars exclusively from now on; I very much do not want a car which is "just a computer with wheels" - the less software in the car, the better!

On the other hand, "German overengineering" (the mechanical side) is also a thing. Not as in built with huge margins and robustness, but intricate and overly complex.

The insane rigmarole involved in replacing the battery in any BMW springs to mind… I agree! ‘Overly complex’ indeed.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#200

Post by leobg »

up2isomorphism wrote: post #186

Tesla does not make money without subsidy, and their car is barely usable: none of people I know just own one Tesla, they all need some ice car to back up.

This thread isn’t even about that. Tesla has a 20% plus margin on their cars. Zero emission credits put Tesla actually at a competitive disadvantage. And I own a Model X, arguably the most complex model of their lineup, and it hasn’t “broken down“ on me even once. I’ve done roadtrips with it, thousands of kilometers, through heat and cold and mountains. And when you do that, you meet other owners all the time at the superchargers. Up to this day, I have not met a single one who didn’t love his Tesla, much less anyone who had experienced any of those service center horror stories that you read on the internet in posts like yours.
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