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Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

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Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#131

Post by jillesvangurp »

prng2021 wrote: post #83

I hate that auto companies are trying to copy Tesla’s awful product design philosophy of controlling everything via a screen and software. It’s the worst thing to happen to the industry since its inception in my opinion. 1. We’re now introducing so many brand new problems to automobiles or tremendously exacerbating existing ones. I’m referring to problems inherent to all complex software. Bugs, updates causing variou…

What people say they value and what they spend their money on are usually very different things. The reality is that Tesla is selling well and companies that are investing in similar products are doing extremely well currently. For all their flaws, these cars are way better than ICE cars.

VW is getting a lot of criticism. Yet, if you try to order one now, you might be waiting until well into next year. They are selling pretty well despite the software issues. They have invested a lot in production capacity and they are on track to match Tesla in production volume in a few years. Few other manufacturers can say that. And most of those are based in China.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#132

Post by [deleted] »

worik wrote: post #107
zizee wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are Australia and Canada doing in there? Australia has… Atlassian? There are plenty of wellknown tech/software companies originating in Australia. Xero, Freelancer, Canva, REA Group, MYOB, Airtasker, BigCommerce, Afterpay... Many foreign software companies have development teams in Aus as well. Google, Zendesk, Square, Squarespace spring to mind. https://www.smartcompany.com.au/technology/the-top-50-tech-c...

Xero is from New Zealand

[deleted]

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#133

Post by cycrutchfield »

dontknowwhyihn wrote: post #18
mixmastamyk wrote: post #4

I don't want any of this in a car. I want analog/tactile nobs, zero connectivity, and at most a power cable and holder to plug in a smart phone. Anyone left that provides this?

This is exactly what I want. I think there’s a huge, untapped market for an electric car with minimal software. A car that doesn’t need software updates and doesn’t track you.

Just like that huge, untapped market for a cell phone with minimal software. Yup, people will be lining up around the block for the modern equivalent of a Motorola razr or Nokia brickphone.

There’s dozens of us! Dozens!

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#134

Post by prng2021 »

_nhynes wrote: post #122
prng2021 wrote: post #83

I hate that auto companies are trying to copy Tesla’s awful product design philosophy of controlling everything via a screen and software. It’s the worst thing to happen to the industry since its inception in my opinion. 1. We’re now introducing so many brand new problems to automobiles or tremendously exacerbating existing ones. I’m referring to problems inherent to all complex software. Bugs, updates causing variou…

I also vastly prefer to use physical controls than a touchscreen, but I’ve found voice control to be even more convenient (when it works, which should only improve over time). I don’t get all of the hate for cars with screens and voice when the latter is a very natural interface when driving.

I agree good voice recognition has huge potential, but I still feel the existence of a touch screen that controls most functions brings tons of problems with it.

My points 1 and 2 above still stand. A screen that can control everything means you have complex underlying software and all the problems that come with that. There’s another commenter here talking about a stack overflow bug from a software update in Porsche Taycans that caused the whole engine to shut down. I keep reading about serious bugs like this. I believe there was a Tesla bug that caused the entire screen to go black and become nonfunctional. I just can’t believe it’s 2022 and we’ve regressed to having to reboot our cars.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#135

Post by dagmx »

astrange wrote: post #52
gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

> IMHO the only countries that really understand software at both a technical and business value add level are US, AUS, Canada, China, with India less so but in that group and Japan just barely getting in. What are Australia and Canada doing in there? Australia has… Atlassian? Besides that, I’ve only heard of developers in Aus/Canada/Japan being well paid if they work for US companies like Google or are parked there…

I think you mean homegrown companies and Canada had Flickr, Slack, Autodesk, SideFX, Hootsuite, Shopify and Corel just to name a few off the top of my head.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#136

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

This is funny to me, in a perhaps sad way. I've interviewed quite a few Tesla software engineers and worked with several ex-Tesla software engineers in various capacities.

The impression I have is that Tesla software is fucking terrible, generally. I'm sure there are some smart folks there and I don't mean to disparage anyone working there but, the stuff I've seen or heard is enough that I would never purchase one of their vehicles for those reasons alone.

That being said I've worked with even fewer folks from other automotive companies, and the impression I get from them is that for the incumbents it's nearly as bad as one could imagine, so the article doesn't surprise me.

All of which makes me pretty sad. My most recent vehicle purchase was largely driven by the desire for the least "smart" features possible. But why is this?

In software, the closer to metal you are, the harder the problems are (mostly due to constraints) but the worse the job is -- pay, culture... it's all bad. Why?

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#137

Post by valine »

amluto wrote: post #22
gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

> But ("FSD" excepted) they spend more of their attention on what really matters: treating their vehicle as a modern electronic device. Yet even Tesla does a rather bad job at this — they consider it to be a modern electronic device and ignore the wheels. OTA updates regularly change the UI in a way that is difficult and dangerous to learn when the wheels are spinning. Even when familiar with it, the very basics are…

You can put the seat heater back on the main screen in the latest update. Drag and drop it onto to the app bar.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#138

Post by nbzso »

I guess that the energy problem in EU will solve all the questions. When you charge your electric skateboard with black plastic and touchscreen fingerprints, and you pay more than people at the pump, all will be good.

Germany with closed nuclear power plants, lack of cheap gas, lack of fertilizers for agriculture, and stopped chemical industry, will never be considered as a strong economy. The future will be dominated by Chinese manufacturers.

And transition to "green energy" will result in coal burning, cold winters and service economy. You will own nothing. You will rent everything. Owning a new vehicle will be for privileged ones.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#139

Post by firecall »

gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

It's interesting you mention electronics...

Just this week I called out a mobile mechanic from our state automobile club here in Australia, to replace the battery in my old 911.

He was really nice bloke, older guy, and we got chatting about cars.

Now he reckoned that he has the most problems with European cars, most of which are considered premium or mid level brands in Australia.

Always putting Euro cars on the back of trucks he said, because of problems with the electronics.

Japanese cars were still the best, and never once had a problem with the Hybrid System from Toyota!

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#140

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

kareemsabri wrote: post #78
pedalpete wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Canadian living in Australia. Australia has much more than just Atlassian. Canva is the 9th most valuable private company according to crunchbase [1]. But you need to look deeper than just "who has the biggest most successful companies. Note, the comment says "countries that understand software". From what I've seen, and one of the reasons I moved here, Australia values quality production. They understand where…

Canada has started to be competitive, mostly because of US companies coming in and bidding up wages, but when I left (~10 years ago) a top salary for a SWE was about $80k. I'm not sure it's because of some cultural appreciation of software as a value driver versus a cost center. The (self-proclaimed) branding as "Silicon Valley North" seems a bit excessive.

I also left roughly the same time as you, so I agree with what they were, but the range is truly wild now. You'll still find $80k positions but the ceiling is now easily 3-4x as much.

It's not the SV of the north yet -- local VCs are still a joke (expect one to two orders of magnitude worse terms) but it's getting better. The angel scene has actually been pretty incredible over the past few years.

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