In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale • Hacker News Board

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#191

Post by granshaw » Sun, Sep 04, 2022, 12:47 AM UTC

matthewdgreen wrote: post #128

mjmahone17 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US states tend to have the most power. The federal government can coax states by offering more money (for instance, funding 90% of highway projects), but can’t usually force states to take any specific action. There are exceptions but in general, if you want an action to happen the state needs to be OK with it. Cities may have a lot of autonomy or almost no autonomy, depending on the specific state and city. I…

This is exactly the point. The goal is to take poorer people and problems (need for school funding, crime, older infrastructure) and concentrate them in a location where you can say “hey, they need to solve their own problems.” Then all the suburbs get great services and low taxes, while all the social and infrastructure problems can be ignored. The suburbs then fight like hell to make sure they don’t pay a dime for…

This so eloquently describes the whole picture, esp in red states

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#192

Post by tootie » Sun, Sep 04, 2022, 1:25 AM UTC

marginalia_nu wrote: post #53

tootie wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's sample bias. You only notice when institutions fail. You don't notice the thousands of bureaucratic processes that work exactly how they're supposed to.

Institutions and infrastructure aren't supposed to fail at all in a functioning society. The fact that some of the institutions that are failing is still extremely alarming.

Every human endeavor is 100% guaranteed to fail at some point. By your definition there are zero function governments anywhere in the world.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#193

Post by alistairSH » Sun, Sep 04, 2022, 1:30 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #143

hosh wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having better local sources of water and treatment may turn out to he a better idea than centralized water treatment. Here in the US, water is pumped (often uphill) and purified to drinking water standards, only for 70% of residential water used for watering green lawns. Those lawns are usually grown in a way where soil microbes are killed off, water retention capability are reduced (so it needs more water), and the…

> Being able to waste land and water resources like that is a typical signal of wealth. The people with lawns that I know and grew up knowing didn't take care of them to "signal wealth". Many would never care to own a luxury car or Rolex. Rather, they enjoyed gardening, the aesthetics, and having their kids play in the lawn. They barbequed every weekend and enjoyed time outdoors at home. > Those lawns are usually gro…

There are other green ground covers than grass that require less water, less chemical treatment, etc. It wasn’t until the 1960s or 70s and a big advertising push from Scott’s Lawn and similar companies that the all-grass, perfectly manicured lawn became a thing in middle-class America. Prior to that, mixed grass+clover+weed lawns were the norm.

The fact that people continue to grow grass lawns in places like Arizona is baffling. There are other choices.

FWIW, I mixed clover into my lawn 5 years ago. I no longer have to water it at all through the summer. Mowing is half as frequent. And it doesn’t brown as much over winter. No idea what anybody would do anything different, except for not knowing any better. I’ll never do an all-grass lawn again.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#194

Post by hosh » Sun, Sep 04, 2022, 1:59 AM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #174

hosh wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in suburban America, and live within a major metropolitan area. I have had lawns. Over the years with what I have learned, I came to the conclusion that lawns as they are generally developed are a big waste, and there are better ways to achieve what I can get out of a lawn. And yes, avacados use up a lot of water, as do nuts. Our food system is built on top of shipping food far away to where it is consumed…

Shipping food from where water is to where it isn't is fine. Dunno why farmers here sell undried, oh sorry, "fresh" corn for a premium when it saves them drying + storage costs.

Shipped food are bred for monocropping and transport. Tomatoes in grocery stores, for example, are chosen for its uniform shape and ability to be stored and transported. They are not bread for taste or nutritional value. That is also leaving aside having to depend on the global supply chain and cheap transport for food. Which is more costly and fragile than developing local food sources and food sovereignty.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#195

Post by hosh » Sun, Sep 04, 2022, 2:03 AM UTC

feet wrote: post #175

hosh wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in suburban America, and live within a major metropolitan area. I have had lawns. Over the years with what I have learned, I came to the conclusion that lawns as they are generally developed are a big waste, and there are better ways to achieve what I can get out of a lawn. And yes, avacados use up a lot of water, as do nuts. Our food system is built on top of shipping food far away to where it is consumed…

Growing avocados where your lawn used to be would be a good change. At least you can eat those, it isn't just a decoration

Not necessarily avocados, however, cultivating a perennial food forest in the yard or on municipal land is a thing.

Even growing ornamental native grasses or meadows instead of fescue help the native ecology.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#196

Post by hosh » Sun, Sep 04, 2022, 2:05 AM UTC

SteveGerencser wrote: post #177

echelon wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get how you would come to believe that if you didn't have one. Let's ban avocados, too! They're an incredible waste of water and resources. (I can't stand how they taste, so this wouldn't affect me.)

Almonds too. They are a terrible use of water and can literally kill people.

Which is nuts (no pun intended), because there are nut trees that can grow well in arid and semi-arid conditions.

The thing is, in order to maximize commercial yields for shipping almonds far away, we end up with agricultural practiced that deplete soil and water resources.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#197

Post by afterburner » Sun, Sep 04, 2022, 2:11 AM UTC

slowmovintarget wrote: post #185

afterburner wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Majority black town in the poorest state in the union, which is also a Republican state. That's no coincidence. EDIT: as in the town is being intentionally poorly maintained by the rest of the state.

Does the "rest of the state" have jurisdiction to run the town?

If the largest town and also capital of your state didn't have water for a while, would you not expect your state government to intervene well before such a failure? The responsibility for such a serious issue doesn't simply stop at the narrowest jurisdiction, it expands until it is addressed. Not to mention I bet the town's budget is very much affected by state politics.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#198

Post by hosh » Sun, Sep 04, 2022, 2:12 AM UTC

slowmovintarget wrote: post #183

hosh wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife tells me the same things about wanting a lawn for the kids to play with. It’s only recently that she has opened up to alternatives — from having native grasses and ground cover, to shaping the terrain. I live in suburban US in a major metropolitan area, and I grew up here. When I talk to people around me maintaining lawns, they don’t think they are signaling wealth either. But some look at me like I am crazy…

We're staring at this dilemma right now. Not for the signaling at all. Our lawn basically died in close to drought-like conditions. We didn't want to waste the water or time, but now what? What do we replace it with that a) doesn't provide a haven for pests or harmful critters, and b) actually is safe for kiddo and other neighborhood kids, and c) doesn't destroy property values for the neighborhood?

There are some resources I can suggest:

- r/nolawns have great ideas on what is possible. It does not have to be ugly or unkempt - the local city, library, or university may have programs for growing native front yards. These are adapted to the local conditions. There are landscape designers who can work that

As an example, it is possible to grow perennial flowers in such a way that _something_ is blooming for much of the year. (Kinda depends on where you live).

The trick with (c) is to design something that looks like it is maintained. So one pattern some folks do is to put a clear boundary on areas left as meadows, and other areas that look like it is clearly mowed.

You can also get it certified as a wildlife refuge from the World Wildlife Foundation, and get an official looking sign. A sign that educates people about it also reframes how the yard is seen and experienced.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#199

Post by Scoundreller » Sun, Sep 04, 2022, 2:57 AM UTC

hosh wrote: post #194

Scoundreller wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shipping food from where water is to where it isn't is fine. Dunno why farmers here sell undried, oh sorry, "fresh" corn for a premium when it saves them drying + storage costs.

Shipped food are bred for monocropping and transport. Tomatoes in grocery stores, for example, are chosen for its uniform shape and ability to be stored and transported. They are not bread for taste or nutritional value. That is also leaving aside having to depend on the global supply chain and cheap transport for food. Which is more costly and fragile than developing local food sources and food sovereignty.

Still depends on the food. Even local tomatoes and other “fresh” crops will be the same mono-cropping garbage unless you hunt down niche stuff at a farmer’s market (or in my case, grow your own!)

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#200

Post by birken » Sun, Sep 04, 2022, 3:46 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #186

njarboe wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smart metering is installed and rates vary with the time of day. Some people can afford to not care about that so asking people not to charge their cars might help.

Just absolutely restrict 240V during peak times then.

From the perspective of your electrical meter, there is no difference between running 2 120V appliances on separate busses vs running a single 240V appliance assuming they consume the same overall wattage. So this would be a very difficult thing to enforce.