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In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

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Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#171

Post by danaris »

systemvoltage wrote: post #12
cs702 wrote: post #5

By all measures, this is due to the kind of neglect and mismanagement one would expect to see in an underdeveloped or war-torn country, not in a city inside a state that is part of the most powerful country on earth. And Jackson is the state's largest city and as well as its capital ! It must be so embarrassing for the politicians who have been running Mississippi. They've done a truly terrible, horrible job on this.

These are the people that have been running the city: - (D) Harvey Johnson Jr. [2009-2013] - (D) Chokwe Lumumba [2013-2014] - (D) Charles Tillman [2014] - (D) Tony Yarber [2014-2017] - (D) Chokwe Lumumba [2017-Present] From the article: > “No one is taking responsibility” for the crisis, she said. “You have the governor and the mayor blaming each other. They just keep going back and forth. Both of them knew the water…

Y'know, sometimes, when two people or groups are blaming each other for something...

One side is stating the factual truth (it's the other side's responsibility)...

...And the other side is blowing smoke to avoid doing things they don't want to do, for whatever reasons.

In this case, I guarantee you that the reasons the Mississippi state government doesn't want to help include both racism (Jackson is majority black) and political partisanship (as you can see, Jackson votes blue).

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#172

Post by parkingrift »

cableshaft wrote: post #108
parkingrift wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Urban decay. Maybe the state will step in to save Jackson, but maybe not. There isn’t a quick fix to reverse the situation in Jackson. Even with dedicated funding and committed resources it would be a multi-decade effort to save the city. The state government may just let the city rot away and disappear.

It's the state's capitol and largest city (by more than 2x the population of its second biggest city), if the state isn't willing to help in that situation, I'm not sure what the state government is there for. Small towns I can see slipping through the cracks, but not your largest/capitol city. Now it's possible the state just doesn't have the resources to fix it, I wouldn't be surprised about that (and reading an ar…

Jackson has 150k residents in a state with 3m total residents. It’s also a state that is historically associated with libertarianism. The state is usually not responsible for local municipal infrastructure.

I’ve read various estimates on the cost to “fix” Jackson but these estimates are just to address infrastructure problems right now. It’s probably an order of magnitude more money to reverse the downward spiral and turn Jackson into a growing city.

It’s not as if Mississippi is a thriving state with cash to spare. Take away federal funding and federal welfare and it’s a third world country deep in poverty. The total annual spending by the Mississippi state government is $23 billion.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#174

Post by Scoundreller »

hosh wrote: post #160
echelon wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get how you would come to believe that if you didn't have one. Let's ban avocados, too! They're an incredible waste of water and resources. (I can't stand how they taste, so this wouldn't affect me.)

I grew up in suburban America, and live within a major metropolitan area. I have had lawns. Over the years with what I have learned, I came to the conclusion that lawns as they are generally developed are a big waste, and there are better ways to achieve what I can get out of a lawn. And yes, avacados use up a lot of water, as do nuts. Our food system is built on top of shipping food far away to where it is consumed…

Shipping food from where water is to where it isn't is fine.

Dunno why farmers here sell undried, oh sorry, "fresh" corn for a premium when it saves them drying + storage costs.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#175

Post by feet »

hosh wrote: post #160
echelon wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get how you would come to believe that if you didn't have one. Let's ban avocados, too! They're an incredible waste of water and resources. (I can't stand how they taste, so this wouldn't affect me.)

I grew up in suburban America, and live within a major metropolitan area. I have had lawns. Over the years with what I have learned, I came to the conclusion that lawns as they are generally developed are a big waste, and there are better ways to achieve what I can get out of a lawn. And yes, avacados use up a lot of water, as do nuts. Our food system is built on top of shipping food far away to where it is consumed…

Growing avocados where your lawn used to be would be a good change. At least you can eat those, it isn't just a decoration

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#176

Post by smileysteve »

stainforth wrote: post #27
burlesona wrote: post #11

It's not just Jackson, or the state of Mississippi. The US has overbuilt infrastructure since WW2. All of it was built on the assumption that infrastructure investment always leads to a massive expansion of the tax base and easily pays for itself, when in reality more and more of our investments have had a negative ROI. This is going to be the new normal for the US as many cities have continues to expand outward for…

Sometime in the 70s there was a reduction of federal funding and thus an expectation that the state could shoulder the costs of infrastructure. Combined with white flight that took potential tax base elsewhere, it became very difficult to support maintenance at this level. https://www.mississippifreepress.org/11498/under-the-surface...

The most important part about white flight is that each of these suburbs went to create even less sustainable infrastructure (via increased points of service and decreased population that is the single family home).

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#177

Post by SteveGerencser »

echelon wrote: post #147
coliveira wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be very glad if grass lawns were made unlawful in the US. It is a terrible waste of time, money, and natural resources for something so useless. I don't have any idea why this silly concept became so common in this country.

I get how you would come to believe that if you didn't have one. Let's ban avocados, too! They're an incredible waste of water and resources. (I can't stand how they taste, so this wouldn't affect me.)

Almonds too. They are a terrible use of water and can literally kill people.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#178

Post by feet »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #89
boeingUH60 wrote: post #45

Where I reside..what you’ll call a third-world country (Nigeria), everyone who builds a home digs their personal water borehole and sewage system because our government is too incompetent to maintain city-wide infrastructure. I’ve always thought it would be much better if we can get centralized systems for these things as they do in developed countries, but I’m pretty sure this is the type of thing we would see regul…

A bit more than 1 in 10 Americans don't get their water from a communal source; most of them have their own wells. And about 1 in 5 American households have septic tanks instead of connections to sewers. This is mostly due to people living in rural areas. Even with all the money in the world, why would you lay a 10 mile sewer line for half a dozen people instead of digging some septic tanks?

Perhaps if the infrastructure were better in some areas, there would be more businesses and people living there

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#179

Post by SteveGerencser »

coliveira wrote: post #155
echelon wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get how you would come to believe that if you didn't have one. Let's ban avocados, too! They're an incredible waste of water and resources. (I can't stand how they taste, so this wouldn't affect me.)

I happen to be forced by the city to maintain a green lawn. That's why I came to believe this.

Apply to be a federally protected wildlife habitat. My daughter did that in a city in Indiana. Ripped out her 'lawn' and replanted with native grasses and things to promote butterfly and bee habitats. The city hates that they can't fine her anymore.

https://www.nwf.org/garden-for-wildlife/certify

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#180

Post by GeekyBear »

cs702 wrote: post #5

By all measures, this is due to the kind of neglect and mismanagement one would expect to see in an underdeveloped or war-torn country, not in a city inside a state that is part of the most powerful country on earth. And Jackson is the state's largest city and as well as its capital ! It must be so embarrassing for the politicians who have been running Mississippi. They've done a truly terrible, horrible job on this.

>It must be so embarrassing for the politicians who have been running Mississippi.

Water systems are run by the cities, not the state.

It's fair to say that maintenance has been put off for long before the current city leadership took office, but it's also fair to say that the current leadership knew the system was failing (it's failed several times over the last few years) and didn't even develop a plan of action.

As the House member whose district includes Jackson put it:

>U.S. Rep. Bennie Thompson said the state bears some blame for neglecting Jackson for decades, but if the capital city cannot properly run its water system, “I would not be in favor of the city being given back the authority to run it.”

Thompson said he has been talking with the mayor and other city leaders and repeated, “I have not seen a plan,” about a long-term fix for the water system.

https://mississippitoday.org/2022/09/02/bennie-thompson-jack...

He's also said that, like everyone else, he can't even get details on what went wrong this time.

>“I think it would be advantageous for the city to come up with a plan, and to share that plan with as many sources of help as possible. I know there’s a water problem with the city of Jackson, but nobody has shared the facts on the problem with me, as one of the Representatives, as well as what the cure or the plan for correcting it.”

https://yallpolitics.com/2022/08/23/thompson-jackson-shouldn...

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