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A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

theguardian.com

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Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#91

Post by krisoft »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #80
krisoft wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is everyone who responded completely unfamiliar with agriculture and 4H programs? I don't know about other people, but I'm happy to admit that I'm unfamiliar with agriculture and 4H programs. > The article literally says the girl had a breakdown _at_ the auction. The Sacramento Bee article linked by the Guardian article says that they expressed their wish to not sell the goat before the auction. "Before the auction…

> they expressed their wish to not sell the goat before the auction On the day of. Most auctions don’t permit this. (Again, livestock auctions have a lot of law around them. Their orderly functioning underlies several states’ economies. Teaching this is sort of 4-H’a point.) > can a law enforcement agent become a judge to decide on this? They got a warrant [1] [1] https://dig.abclocal.go.com/kgo/PDF/2022-08-31-Compla…

> Teaching this is sort of 4-H’a

Well this person certainly learned an important lesson about where meat comes from.

> They got a warrant.

By misrepresenting facts. And then the warrant didn't authorise them to hand the goat over to some other third party.

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#92

Post by uxcolumbo »

nashashmi wrote: post #84
uxcolumbo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My premise is that if we showed kids the realities of slaughterhouses and the impact that animal farming has on our biosphere and all the other externalities - I believe most would not want to support this. Imagine we had a children's book that would convey these facts in a manner kids understand more easily. And yet we hide these facts from children and we tell them to eat meat and drink milk because they need it fo…

This is an agenda.

I don't follow.

Can you elaborate?

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#93

Post by foogazi »

superchroma wrote: post #7

Well that's just a terrible and unnecessary little story. If I was the family, I guess I would have purchased a second goat and pretended it was the first, but why the hell do we have to employ cunning for something this mundane. This is a real vogon story.

> If I was the family, I guess I would have purchased a second goat and pretended it was the first,

Or bid on their own goat

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#94

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ahahahahah wrote: post #87
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> girl was at all times the lawful owner of the goat. The goat was not legally sold. The complaint leaves this far from settled. > why police need to not play cowboy They got a warrant [1]. > if your car is stolen and you see it in somebody's garage, the police are NOT just going to grab it and hand it back to you I have recovered my phone from someone’s house with the help of police. They coöperated and in exchange…

> They got a warrant [1]. They had no warrant to search or seize the goat from the farm that it was at [1]. [1] https://dig.abclocal.go.com/kgo/PDF/2022-08-31-Complaint.pdf page 11

> had no warrant to search or seize the goat from the farm that it was at

If Sonoma Farm resisted the police, sure, there might be a Fourteenth Amendment claim in respect of the search. There is no indication they did. That makes the seizure totally valid.

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#95

Post by JumpCrisscross »

superchroma wrote: post #88
pigbearpig wrote: post #23

Completely unnecessary, a lot of adults had a chance to stop and think but they didn’t. How about we don’t hold 10-year old 4-H members to contracts (pretty sure they can’t anyway). Why are Sheriff deputies jumping on a case like this. Maybe the parents should not have let it get that far to be auctioned off, seems like they would have know before that their daughter considered it a pet.

Yes. The amount of people leaping straight to law in this thread is alarming, and I believe that that reflex is a cultural sickness. Why do we as a people bother producing things like Hallmark movies if this is the awful reality of american life, devoid of sentimentality, kindness and patience? I hope people consume such media because they aspire for things to be better some day.

This is a story of stupid parents. They waited until the day of to bother doing anything. Then they absconded with the animal after it had been auctioned.

They should absolutely be allowed to back out of the auction with reasonable notice. And I can empathise—if someone came for my pets I’d do what was necessary, the law be damned. But they proceeded idiotically and are now filing petty suits against the cops of all people, cops who executed a warrant signed by a judge.

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#96

Post by david38 »

vogt wrote: post #6

Look, I’m an animal lover and what a nightmare for that little girl, but I don’t think that her parents did her any favors by not preparing her mentally for what was to come. The animals being sold at auction is part and parcel of the 4H experience, or many families will opt to have the animal slaughtered themselves. It sounds like they brought this goat to auction where it was sold and then tried to re-neg on the sa…

It’s a goat. It’s a young child.

Surely the world won’t stop because a minor doesn’t understand the full ramifications of a contract.

Get off your high horse.

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#97

Post by david38 »

vogt wrote: post #60
Hizonner wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It sounds like they brought this goat to auction where it was sold and then tried to re-neg on the sale. Wrong. You did not read the article closely, or you would not have made that assumption. Frankly you had no reason to make such an assumption even without reading it. Complaint: https://dig.abclocal.go.com/kgo/PDF/2022-08-31-Complaint.pdf

Except I’m not wrong: “On June 24, 2022, accompanied by Plaintiff Jessica, Plaintiff E.L. exhibited Cedar at Shasta District Fair in the junior livestock auction.” Since we’re making assumptions about each other apparently, I’ll assume you’re from San Fransisco or Toronto or some other urban center where livestock auctions aren’t common. So allow me to inform you that the purpose of a livestock auction is to bid on l…

I would be surprised if anyone was under the impression that the purpose of a livestock auction was … to raise pets?

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#98

Post by david38 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #74
Hizonner wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct. And at the time they first "tried" to back out, the goat had not been sold. At that point, everybody was on notice that the goat was not for sale. No valid sale could have occurred after that first attempt. It's not that they "tried" to back out. They did back out. And the only available remedy for that was money damages, not random extraducial confiscation of property. By the way, on top of that, Cal…

> No valid sale could have occurred after that first attempt Auctions have rules. I don’t know this one’s, the complaint [1] omits much of them, but every one I’ve participated in bars backing out on the day of the auction. If you change your mind, you bid for your item. [1] https://dig.abclocal.go.com/kgo/PDF/2022-08-31-Complaint.pdf

Irrelevant. She is a minor.

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#99

Post by david38 »

vogt wrote: post #9
411111111111111 wrote: post #2

How does America have such an abundance of police which behave in such an obviously morally corrupt manner? In most nations the police makes at least a token effort to appear trustworthy for plausible deniability. From the states you get weekly reports that are so outlandishly bad that you almost can't believe it. Really strange as a bystander.

The goat became property of the new owner when it was sold at auction, which the family knew they were getting into. I hate defending someone who clearly was being an asshole in this situation by not having the heart to say “This little girl is clearly attached, I can simply buy another goat”, but there were no rights being violated here that I see.

It didn’t. It wasn’t sold because the girl backed out. The auction chose to ignore that.

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#100

Post by rdtwo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #24
411111111111111 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, they probably had a previous agreement assuring the auction, but it wasn't the police's job to make that decision. They're the executive, not the judicative. A judge would've had to make this assertion, which clearly didn't happen as they didn't have a warrant. The officers still drove all over the state into a different jurisdiction (while using taxpayers money). They likely could've gotten the goat without ma…

> it wasn't the police's job to make that decision If my car is stolen and I see it in someone’s garage, I absolutely expect the police to do something about it. In this case, the facts about lawful ownership were straightforward.

You must not live in any major city the west coast. Here if it’s stolen it’s theirs, police won’t help even if you can locate the stolen item
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