So You Want to be a Writer (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: So You Want to be a Writer (2016)

#11

Post by orzig » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:11 PM UTC

I'd long assumed that writing success was mostly a function of exponential returns on randomly-assigned initial success[0], so as someone who tries to practice Active Open Mindedness[1], I mentally noted this mere hours ago:

> I’m always suspicious that everything is fake and good writers aren’t actually good and it’s just a social conspiracy to believe that they are, but these results are a vote in support of our existing writer-identification-institutions (are they all Substack? I guess it’s just Substack)[2]

[0] https://www.princeton.edu/~mjs3/salganik_dodds_watts06_full.... [1] https://rufuspollock.com/2017/12/10/tetlock-gardner-2015-sup... [2] https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/book-review-contest-20...

Re: So You Want to be a Writer (2016)

#12

Post by scioto » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:18 PM UTC

conviencefee999 wrote: post #2

I'd advise against following advice from individuals like this for many reasons, one to mention survivorship bias to basic things like being picked up by a publishing house. Advice from people like this is often just kind of useless if not actively detrimental to your quality of life. You can do all the things stated here and fail. The reality is that the way the writing industry works it is a very selective and clos…

If you ever read John Scalzi's story on how he got to where he is (mid-list author??), he frequently says that he got lucky. He posted his _Old Man's War_ story on his blog, and an editor saw it and threw money at him.

By the time he made his big sale, he'd been writing for years. If you have six minutes to blow, go to his Audible page for his latest[1], scroll down to the video John Scalzi: My Story, and he talks about it.

That said, he also says he likes to pay it forward by pushing budding authors when he can to spread the luck.

--

[1] https://www.audible.com/pd/Travel-by-Bullet-Audiobook/B0B838...

Re: So You Want to be a Writer (2016)

#13

Post by uncle_ted_ » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:37 PM UTC

orzig wrote: post #11

I'd long assumed that writing success was mostly a function of exponential returns on randomly-assigned initial success[0], so as someone who tries to practice Active Open Mindedness[1], I mentally noted this mere hours ago: > I’m always suspicious that everything is fake and good writers aren’t actually good and it’s just a social conspiracy to believe that they are, but these results are a vote in support of our ex…

No post body was provided.

Re: So You Want to be a Writer (2016)

#14

Post by watwut » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:40 PM UTC

hirundo wrote: post #3

conviencefee999 wrote: post #2

I'd advise against following advice from individuals like this for many reasons, one to mention survivorship bias to basic things like being picked up by a publishing house. Advice from people like this is often just kind of useless if not actively detrimental to your quality of life. You can do all the things stated here and fail. The reality is that the way the writing industry works it is a very selective and clos…

Don't listen to people who succeed at what you're trying to do because they're outliers? So listen to failures and wannabes instead? Or ignore advice period?

Listen to both people who succeeded and who did not. You actually need to learn from failures too.

Re: So You Want to be a Writer (2016)

#15

Post by narrator » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:52 PM UTC

conviencefee999 wrote: post #2

I'd advise against following advice from individuals like this for many reasons, one to mention survivorship bias to basic things like being picked up by a publishing house. Advice from people like this is often just kind of useless if not actively detrimental to your quality of life. You can do all the things stated here and fail. The reality is that the way the writing industry works it is a very selective and clos…

Now that Amazon will give you 70% if you price under $10 and sell on Kindle, it's a whole new world for writers who want to release independently. If you put your book on Kindle Unlimited, you get paid by how many pages people read. Sure, you have to do all your marketing, but giving out free copies of your book for reviews is a low-cost way to bootstrap a following. Once you get a decent number of reviews and climb in the sales rank, the rest takes care of itself.

Of course, your book has to be good, which is the very hard part. Since Kindle lets you read free samples, I've read some of the lower ranked stuff in the genre I write in and it's pretty awful. However, I've heard there are people who write in certain genres like erotica and write total trash, but they making a living at it anyway by targeting various niches.

Re: So You Want to be a Writer (2016)

#16

Post by JeremyReimer » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 7:03 PM UTC

conviencefee999 wrote: post #2

I'd advise against following advice from individuals like this for many reasons, one to mention survivorship bias to basic things like being picked up by a publishing house. Advice from people like this is often just kind of useless if not actively detrimental to your quality of life. You can do all the things stated here and fail. The reality is that the way the writing industry works it is a very selective and clos…

I'm a writer. What you've said here is basically correct, but I disagree with your conclusion.

In 2009 I took basically the same path that Howey is proposing here. I started self-publishing on Amazon in 2011 and I've written five novels so far, and am working on a sixth.

Obviously I did not experience anywhere near the success that Howey did. This may be due to luck, but I've read Wool and it's also a much better novel than anything I've written (so far!) So it's not always about luck. An amazingly good novel can sometimes generate its own luck.

But my lack of success hasn't dissuaded me and I don't consider the journey I took in becoming a writer to have been wasted. On the contrary, it's been amazing every step of the way. I've learned so many things, met so many wonderful people, and even sold a couple of thousand books along the way, which isn't much, but it's not nothing either.

And at the same time, I've been writing non-fiction articles for Ars Technica, which has been considerably more successful for me. (An example would be my article on the history of OS/2, or my history of the Amiga computer). These articles have been read and enjoyed by orders of magnitude more people, which is very satisfying.

I guess what I'm saying is that there are more possibilities for being a writer than being a famous fiction author picked up by a major publishing house. There are all kinds of paths for writers to take.

Success is never guaranteed, and if you want to be a writer you have to be realistic about this. But if you really want to be a writer, nothing can stop you. In fact, that's kind of the only prerequisite for becoming one. If you feel compelled to write, regardless of any success or rewards, you will keep doing it. At the very least, you will become a better writer. And if you become a better writer, it's almost inevitable that, at some point, somebody will notice.

Don't expect to be famous. Expect to write.

Re: So You Want to be a Writer (2016)

#17

Post by thenerdhead » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

Did anyone immediately look at the scrollbar and not read the article because of it?

Anyway, I hate articles that just say "hard work":

> So here’s the #1 secret to success and a career of working in your underwear: You have to work harder than anyone else. Period.

Imagine how many books have been written that have gone unread but the author "worked hard" to no success.

> I did most of my writing as a yacht captain, roofer, and bookseller.

Sounds like they had plenty of free time to write. Good for them.

> 7) Live fully and cheaply. Yes, this goes with the craft of writing. Writing is much more than putting your butt in a seat. It’s making sure you have the time and financial freedom to write, and it’s ensuring that you have something to write about when you do plant that butt.

I'm going to stick with Steven Pressfield's advice of "put your ass where your heart wants to be". You don't have to live fully nor frugally to be a writer. If you're writing to gain your financial freedom, then you need time. I like simple advice like "do at least something towards your book everyday".

Re: So You Want to be a Writer (2016)

#18

Post by thenerdhead » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 8:13 PM UTC

JeremyReimer wrote: post #16

conviencefee999 wrote: post #2

I'd advise against following advice from individuals like this for many reasons, one to mention survivorship bias to basic things like being picked up by a publishing house. Advice from people like this is often just kind of useless if not actively detrimental to your quality of life. You can do all the things stated here and fail. The reality is that the way the writing industry works it is a very selective and clos…

I'm a writer. What you've said here is basically correct, but I disagree with your conclusion. In 2009 I took basically the same path that Howey is proposing here. I started self-publishing on Amazon in 2011 and I've written five novels so far, and am working on a sixth. Obviously I did not experience anywhere near the success that Howey did. This may be due to luck, but I've read Wool and it's also a much better nov…

Yeah but are you writing what you love to write or writing what the world pays you to write?

Great writers can find jobs just about anywhere. The real question is whether or not you enjoy what you are writing.

Re: So You Want to be a Writer (2016)

#19

Post by Evenjos » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 8:22 PM UTC

hirundo wrote: post #3

conviencefee999 wrote: post #2

I'd advise against following advice from individuals like this for many reasons, one to mention survivorship bias to basic things like being picked up by a publishing house. Advice from people like this is often just kind of useless if not actively detrimental to your quality of life. You can do all the things stated here and fail. The reality is that the way the writing industry works it is a very selective and clos…

Don't listen to people who succeed at what you're trying to do because they're outliers? So listen to failures and wannabes instead? Or ignore advice period?

Don't listen to idiots. But do listen to the people who sincerely tried and failed.

Few people want to talk about failure. But I've been watching the publishing industry for a long time, and it's not as simple as pressing the "Publish" button and watching sales roll in. Algorithms have changed the way things work. Bots promote works that are already popular or trending. It's harder than ever for newbies to get noticed.

Re: So You Want to be a Writer (2016)

#20

Post by bambax » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 8:23 PM UTC

I really like most of the advice given here, esp. "story > writing". The confusing thing about "writing" is that it's not about putting words on a page. It's about coming up with interesting plots and characters.

Once you have that, the writing will take care of itself.