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From Prison to Programming

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41–50 of 121 posts

Re: From Prison to Programming

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a good enough developer to build a career in this field doesn't require a high IQ but it does require a special kind of mindset as you said. I also used to think that everyone could learn to code but I came to realize that this mindset can't be learned. Some people maybe discover that they have this mindset later in life and that's why learn to code is still a useful piece of advice because it'll reach them but…

I teach coding. The mindset absolutely can be learned, but indeed, you need to learn some attitude, not just skills. But a teacher can show how it is done; the exploration, the part when you do not give up when you encounter an error, etc. In my experience, the most significant first barrier is the command line and the environment setup. This is why I always start with explaining the Unix shell and ssh. It gets a lot…

Maybe you're right. But I've mentored a few college students on the side.

All interested in programing and in pursuing a CS degree and yet some of them wanted only the solution. They were not interested in why their code didn't work or what the error was, they wanted me to jump in and give them the solution.

It's like they liked the idea of being a developer like many like the idea of becoming a writer, but they didn't have that mindset, that stubbornness and willingness to spend hours reading some shitty incomplete readme, going through dozens of GitHub issue threads, googling compiler's errors, reading the doc, trying until it works and feeling that rush of pleasure once it compiles/do whatever you want your program to do.

And some of them couldn't grasp some basic, fundamental concepts like a for loop or accessing a method on an object after two semesters in a CS program.

Re: From Prison to Programming

#42
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of be-all-end-all solution always fails. Some years ago journalists in the US loved to tell coal miners that they should "learn to code" when the mines shut down due to Washington politics. How hard could it be? Did this even happen? I cannot find any articles in which miners were told to learn to code. I think instead those miners were offered vocational training, which included coding. This was in 2017. m…

>>Did this even happen? I cannot find any articles in which miners were told to learn to code. Then I guess you really didn't look to hard: https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/47... snip: "During a rally yesterday, Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden spoke to a crowd in Derry, N.H., a town that many miners call home. He acknowledged the economic setbacks and job insecurity that coal mine…

But that came later .I am referring 2017 when this became a meme. Also Biden is not a journalist.

Re: From Prison to Programming

#43
post #40

Rick Wolter seems to be quite balanced. Read the last paragraph "Life’s Not Fair". Problem is that some people read his story and thinks. "Oh, so teaching felons programming is a great way to reduce recidivism". This kind of be-all-end-all solution always fails. Some years ago journalists in the US loved to tell coal miners that they should "learn to code" when the mines shut down due to Washington politics. How hard…

God I fucking hate the response "learn to code!" to everything. People seem to think everyone being a programmer is needed otherwise humanity will fall. Honestly it is one of the stupidest things I have heard. Could more [good] programmers be a good thing? Sure, we can always do with more good programmers. However the truth is we need more of many, many types of people. Teachers, personal care workers, doctors, nurse…

What if those journalists had instead come out and said that miners are not smart enough to code. They would have gotten even more hate probably by the very same people. So you lose either way.

Re: From Prison to Programming

#44
I think the biggest problem prisons have is that you collect large groups of criminals and let them hang out together. It breeds an even more concentrated form of criminal. Often times minor criminals need to join racist gangs just to survive which Is inhumane.

I think they should all be separated from each other. They should be put in single cells, and given access to as much education as they want, and just basically put on time out for weeks, months, years. Let them chat with their families and understand the hurt they did. Let them meditate on what they want to do with Their lives after. But keep them separated. It makes things safer for guards as well, lowering the tension.

What we are doing now is useless, inhumane, and counterproductive.

Re: From Prison to Programming

#45

Rick Wolter seems to be quite balanced. Read the last paragraph "Life’s Not Fair". Problem is that some people read his story and thinks. "Oh, so teaching felons programming is a great way to reduce recidivism". This kind of be-all-end-all solution always fails. Some years ago journalists in the US loved to tell coal miners that they should "learn to code" when the mines shut down due to Washington politics. How hard…

I agree with much of what you said. You've also missed the point if you are referring to the non-profit Underdog Devs, which helps the formerly incarcerated become developers, with your bootstraps comment.

If we could become software devs "by our own bootstraps" there would be no need for an Underdog Devs. Thats the point, support is needed.

Overall I agree with you though, learning to code is not some panacea to cure recidivism. It is however a legit path to a rewarding job which is open to those without degrees and who might have felonies on record.

Since starting Underdog Devs Ive seen it over and over. With real commitment its very attainable. We have many success stories which seem like outliers, however they consistently happen.

Re: From Prison to Programming

#46
post #40

Rick Wolter seems to be quite balanced. Read the last paragraph "Life’s Not Fair". Problem is that some people read his story and thinks. "Oh, so teaching felons programming is a great way to reduce recidivism". This kind of be-all-end-all solution always fails. Some years ago journalists in the US loved to tell coal miners that they should "learn to code" when the mines shut down due to Washington politics. How hard…

God I fucking hate the response "learn to code!" to everything. People seem to think everyone being a programmer is needed otherwise humanity will fall. Honestly it is one of the stupidest things I have heard. Could more [good] programmers be a good thing? Sure, we can always do with more good programmers. However the truth is we need more of many, many types of people. Teachers, personal care workers, doctors, nurse…

Teachers, doctors, nurses etc. can use code to simplify their jobs and make themselves more productive. Not everyone needs to be a professional coder, but being aware of what code is and how it works should absolutely be a basic skill. No different than reading or math.

Re: From Prison to Programming

#47
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God I fucking hate the response "learn to code!" to everything. People seem to think everyone being a programmer is needed otherwise humanity will fall. Honestly it is one of the stupidest things I have heard. Could more [good] programmers be a good thing? Sure, we can always do with more good programmers. However the truth is we need more of many, many types of people. Teachers, personal care workers, doctors, nurse…

What if those journalists had instead come out and said that miners are not smart enough to code. They would have gotten even more hate probably by the very same people. So you lose either way.

Are journalists smart enough to code? More relevantly, are they smart enough to accurately inform the general public about the topics they cover? The commonality of Gel-Mann amnesia suggests otherwise.

Re: From Prison to Programming

#48
post #40

Rick Wolter seems to be quite balanced. Read the last paragraph "Life’s Not Fair". Problem is that some people read his story and thinks. "Oh, so teaching felons programming is a great way to reduce recidivism". This kind of be-all-end-all solution always fails. Some years ago journalists in the US loved to tell coal miners that they should "learn to code" when the mines shut down due to Washington politics. How hard…

God I fucking hate the response "learn to code!" to everything. People seem to think everyone being a programmer is needed otherwise humanity will fall. Honestly it is one of the stupidest things I have heard. Could more [good] programmers be a good thing? Sure, we can always do with more good programmers. However the truth is we need more of many, many types of people. Teachers, personal care workers, doctors, nurse…

Obviously not everyone wants to learn to code. I dont think anyone mistakenly believes that.The (possibly overused) advice to learn to code is prevalent because software is prevalent

Ill repeat what ive said elsewhere...It is a legit path to a rewarding job which is open to those without degrees and who might have felonies on record.

Since starting Underdog Devs Ive seen it over and over. With real commitment its very attainable. We have many success stories which seem like outliers, however they consistently happen.

This isn't something Ive read, its something we've done over and over with mentees. I get that youre tired of that trite bit of advice, but its happening for a lot of people. There are a lot of people who have had their entires life changed through that skill. Definitely not the solution for everyone, but it is the solution for some.

Re: From Prison to Programming

#49

Rick Wolter seems to be quite balanced. Read the last paragraph "Life’s Not Fair". Problem is that some people read his story and thinks. "Oh, so teaching felons programming is a great way to reduce recidivism". This kind of be-all-end-all solution always fails. Some years ago journalists in the US loved to tell coal miners that they should "learn to code" when the mines shut down due to Washington politics. How hard…

This kind of be-all-end-all solution always fails. Some years ago journalists in the US loved to tell coal miners that they should "learn to code" when the mines shut down due to Washington politics. How hard could it be? Did this even happen? I cannot find any articles in which miners were told to learn to code. I think instead those miners were offered vocational training, which included coding. This was in 2017. m…

coincidentally at Underdog Devs we took in some of the students from that failed project. It was called Mined Mines. A few still made it later and became software devs, but the majority didnt work out.

Re: From Prison to Programming

#50

I think the biggest problem prisons have is that you collect large groups of criminals and let them hang out together. It breeds an even more concentrated form of criminal. Often times minor criminals need to join racist gangs just to survive which Is inhumane. I think they should all be separated from each other. They should be put in single cells, and given access to as much education as they want, and just basical…

Solitary confinement is literally inhumane and drives people to suicide. This is one of the only realistic suggestions I can imagine that would make the US prison system worse.
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