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Jetbrains Space

jetbrains.com

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Re: Jetbrains Space

#31

Post by chrisseaton »

ilovecaching wrote: post #26
chrisseaton wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At some point people have to decide that privacy and freedom are more important than some level of convenience. Why do I need to decide that? I’m just trying write some fun code. It’s all open source and meant to be looked at anyway.

And that’s exactly how dystopias are created. People give away their privacy feeling like they have nothing to hide, up until the point that they really need it back when it becomes a tool of oppression and espionage, but by then it’s already too late. Corporations love to downplay these risks and make it seem like avoiding their road map to vendor lock in and proprietary, subscription based software is for people we…

> it’s already too late

Too late for… what? What do you think is going to happen? JetBrains are going to lobby for a law preventing local development?

> hypocrisy at play

Wow there’s no hypocrisy. I’ve got no moral obligation to support your open source project just because mine is open source. Hypocrisy is telling people to do something and doing another yourself. Given I haven’t told anyone to do anything, where is the hypocrisy?

You’re the only person telling anyone to do anything.

Re: Jetbrains Space

#32

Post by prattmic »

mgaw wrote: post #29

It seems they are deprecating their standalone code review tool Upsource in favor of the code review tool that's integrated into Space. Upsource is nice because it allows opening a review for a set of commits which aren't necessarily continuous. This way, multiple people can work on the same branch at the same time, and open a review for their respective commits afterwards. You don't need to wait for your coworker to…

I’m not familiar with Upsource, but what you describe sounds somewhat like the Gerrit review process. Each commit is reviewed individually, but sending multiple dependent commits for review is supported as well. It is technically possible for a coworker to build on top of your unsubmitted changes (by checking out your commits and adding more on top). However this process gets somewhat painful if the coworker updates their commits, which would require you to do a convoluted rebase.

Re: Jetbrains Space

#33

Post by Semaphor »

chrisseaton wrote: post #27
Semaphor wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s $25 or $125 (includes all product pack, requires min 50 users) per usermonth. The OP said on prem.

Seems like a completely trivial sum of money for a key professional tool?

I’m not disagreeing, just wanted to correct what prices are talked about ;)

Re: Jetbrains Space

#34

Post by yewenjie »

I don't use any Jetbrains product and I have no idea how well-executed this is, but I am pleased to see a relatively smaller company competing against the almost monopoly of Microsoft's VS Code and GitHub.

Re: Jetbrains Space

#35

Post by symlinkk »

sod wrote: post #8

All in one solutions always look super nice when they first come out, as they can shortcut to just implement all the best practices that most people do right now and look very clean by omitting all the weird edge cases. But give it a couple of years, and you are stuck with a slow moving monolith. That jetbrains fleet - a year after the announcement - is still in closed beta shows that they aren't really setup to move…

> There is no competition for such a complete package

GitHub + VSCode

Re: Jetbrains Space

#36

Post by wiradikusuma »

We use Space due to GitLab's recent pricing changes.

We like:

- free git hosting

- free slack-like with sub-thread

- generous CI/CD

- built-in issue tracker

- built-in wiki

- very snappy

- has mobile app

We don't like:

- CI/CD script uses Kotlin DSL, feels "heavy".

- Issue tracker very basic, we end up using YouTrack. Still don't know how to integrate it lol.

- One project can have multiple repos, but they all share same permission. So we end up creating multiple projects e.g. mobile app, web, backend.

- Regarding multiple projects.. we end up creating another project just to contain wiki.

- Cannot trigger based on tag. We end up creating branch for different environment.

- Difficulty in writing CI/CD script due to limited documentation/knowledge on the net and unfriendly keyword ("space"? Lol. You have to type "Jetbrains space automation (keyword here)"

- At certain times VERY slow.

- Notifications in Mobile App sometimes not working.

We find confusing:

- Calendar

- Video call

Confusing because why add more features that's already best served by other services?

Re: Jetbrains Space

#37

Post by ilovecaching »

chrisseaton wrote: post #31
ilovecaching wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that’s exactly how dystopias are created. People give away their privacy feeling like they have nothing to hide, up until the point that they really need it back when it becomes a tool of oppression and espionage, but by then it’s already too late. Corporations love to downplay these risks and make it seem like avoiding their road map to vendor lock in and proprietary, subscription based software is for people we…

> it’s already too late Too late for… what? What do you think is going to happen? JetBrains are going to lobby for a law preventing local development? > hypocrisy at play Wow there’s no hypocrisy. I’ve got no moral obligation to support your open source project just because mine is open source. Hypocrisy is telling people to do something and doing another yourself. Given I haven’t told anyone to do anything, where is…

> JetBrains are going to lobby for a law preventing local development?

You think this is hyperbole, but companies lobby for unfair and anti-consumer, anti-privacy laws all the time.

You live in a world with a weekend and reasonable working conditions because workers banded together and fought against corporations to buy those things for you. Don’t be naive. Corporations do what is best for their bottom line.

> telling anyone to do anything

I am explaining to you why it’s in your own self interest to support free and open source software and think of it as a community rather than a label for a project. Corporations don’t need you to side with them, they have money and lobbyists, advocate for your fellow volunteer devs instead.

Re: Jetbrains Space

#38

Post by noisy_boy »

sjroot wrote: post #19
noisy_boy wrote: post #9

What I really want is a workflow for managing change requests (CRs) that is tightly integrated with Github and Jira. ServiceNow is super clunky (you can't even have markdown in the fields to provide some decent formatting) and the copy-pasting of links gets tiring very fast.

https://support.atlassian.com/jira-cloud-administration/docs... Why would you want to loop in a completely separate service when GitHub and Jira already have an integration available?

I am already using Github and Jira integrated - problem is that a. Jira doesn't provide a change request workflow b. They don't integrate with ServiceNow (which is a major IT service management workflow used for, among many things, change management).

Re: Jetbrains Space

#39

Post by chrisseaton »

ilovecaching wrote: post #37
chrisseaton wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s already too late Too late for… what? What do you think is going to happen? JetBrains are going to lobby for a law preventing local development? > hypocrisy at play Wow there’s no hypocrisy. I’ve got no moral obligation to support your open source project just because mine is open source. Hypocrisy is telling people to do something and doing another yourself. Given I haven’t told anyone to do anything, where is…

> JetBrains are going to lobby for a law preventing local development? You think this is hyperbole, but companies lobby for unfair and anti-consumer, anti-privacy laws all the time. You live in a world with a weekend and reasonable working conditions because workers banded together and fought against corporations to buy those things for you. Don’t be naive. Corporations do what is best for their bottom line. > tellin…

This is way off the deep end as a response to a company offering a tool that nobody has to use if they don’t want to.

> I am explaining to you why it’s in your own self interest

That’s for your opinion of my own interests.

JetBrains don’t tell me what I should do, or tell me that I don’t know my own interests, or make moral judgements against me, only people like you do that.

Re: Jetbrains Space

#40

Post by KronisLV »

sod wrote: post #8

All in one solutions always look super nice when they first come out, as they can shortcut to just implement all the best practices that most people do right now and look very clean by omitting all the weird edge cases. But give it a couple of years, and you are stuck with a slow moving monolith. That jetbrains fleet - a year after the announcement - is still in closed beta shows that they aren't really setup to move…

> All in one solutions always look super nice when they first come out, as they can shortcut to just implement all the best practices that most people do right now and look very clean by omitting all the weird edge cases. But give it a couple of years, and you are stuck with a slow moving monolith.

I'd say that a lot of the pain comes from needing to integrate with the dozens of different pieces of software that people use for their bespoke work setups.

For example, you might use self-hosted GitLab for code and code reviews, but something like Jenkins for CI/CD - so all of the sudden you need to think about the webhooks and reporting build status back for the web UI. Of course, I've seen people just not do that any only Jenkins being able to show you what's going on with your builds (though at least with e-mails).

Furthermore, you might use something like Redmine or Jira for issue tracking which once again have plugins that you need for GitLab to be able to add links in the UI for actual changes done to the code for some business need. Of course, you could go with not the official plugin but something like Jigit which has its own set of oddities and configuration needs.

But if you can stick within the same ecosystem, such as GitLab and GitLab CI (which I implemented in the company and now the majority of new projects use it, because it seems like the sane choice) and maybe even GitLab with GitLab Issues, or even their new features for managing feature flags (which you might just not have otherwise, or will have XML configuration files) and environments, you'll generally have a pretty positive experience!

Personally, I always welcome new players in this market because competition is good, especially when the offerings can be self hosted (which is sadly not a lot of them).

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