321–330 of 841 posts
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That's the Second Age for you. None of the major characters is supposed to be likable, except maybe Elendil. This is not a story about heroism and self-sacrifice. It's a story where powerful people do stupid things out of pride, great empires fall, and almost everyone dies.
The peanut gallery does not like being reminded that their simplistic preferences make for poor art.
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There are some people for whom the name Tolkien means something, usually something very specific and beloved. If those people aren't the core audience, why did they pay out of the nose to use that name in the first place? They could do a fantasy story written all in-house, and save themselves the money. If you're right, the audience should be almost as big, and they get to skip the part where they're accused of grave…
No, Tolkien-lovers aren't the core audience. Every casual viewer that enjoyed or have heard of Lord of the Rings are. Because that groups is about a billion people, not tens of thousands. Like me, I enjoyed the trilogy. I don't care if this new show isn't in "the spirit" of Tolkien (judged by someone far after his death, how much does that even mean?), I'm gonna watch it because I've heard of the IP before and want t…
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> What difference does it make if they cast another non-Italian actor to play a role? Who said anything about being Italian? I've only quoted the author words (Collodi) The fairy is pale white not because she is a white person, but because she's pure. Pale white skin is not an Italian trait, so I don't understand what Italianness has to do with anything. If anything, the fact that she is pale white makes her obviousl…
> The fairy is pale white not because she is white, but because she's pure. Curious equivocation there.
It's a trope that's carried on into sci-fi (particularly Star Trek, where the more animalistic or violent races also tend to be darker - see the Klingons who get portrayed as darker-skinned and more aggressive with each iteration) and related high-fantasy properties like D&D.
I choose to ignore user reviews/ratings altogether. On IMDB right now 60% of the ratings (not reviews) are either 1 or 10 [1], and that's completely ridicolous. I much prefer the critics' scores - and right now they're 84% on RT [2] and 71 on Metacritics [3]. Which are reasonable numbers. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/ratings/?ref_=tt_ov_rt [2] https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_lord_of_the_rings_the_..…
A fanatic, while crazy, has skin in the game. Their time and money.
I'll take a fanatics POV over an experts everyday of the week and Sundays too.
Say something nice about TRoP. The thing that's got me interested is the entrance of Gandalf (I presume.) Dropped in from the heavens like an alien, found in a smoldering crater, clearly baffled by up-close Arda, can't speak "the" language, mystified by corporeal-ness, almost simian. The writers had enough of a clue to see the opportunity in making Gandalf's backstory a meaningful subplot, so they're developing it wi…
Do we need spoilers here? Didn't know that was Gandalf. Aside from that I agree, so far TRoP has been close to or better than expected. I'm not sure what people expected here but at any rate it's too early. You would't want to judge LotR based only on the initial chapter either.
Sincerely sorry. And yet...
> Didn't know that was Gandalf.
My point, exactly.
My issue with the show has nothing to do with the “woke” stuff mentioned here. I don’t like it because none of the heroes are likable. All of them have some form of sticking it to the man and doing what they want as their story line. True heroes are self-sacrificial and reluctant. Contrast Galadriel who acts like a self righteous dickhead with Aragorn who was reluctant to accept his calling spent and three movies pro…
> Contrast Galadriel who acts like a self righteous dickhead with Aragorn who was reluctant to accept his calling spent and three movies proving himself to be worthy of honor and love You mean three books, right? The difference here is that Aragorn was written by Tolkien, this show wasn't and has completely betrayed the original material. Race or gender swaps are not a big issue, but they become one if the purpose is…
Elves are fictive and have a long literary history--mostly publicized by white Europeans. Originally, they were described as evil creatures who infected people with diseases. Tolkien stepped into the folklore at a particular time and place and offered his interpretation. Sticking to a tradition in which they're all genetically similar--and white--is also just an interpretation. My point is that there's no elf manual that everyone needs to stick to.
You point out a good detail with Pinocchio. But again, Collodi offered his interpretation of a folk tale. In Collodi's text [1], the fish that swallowed Pinocchio is described as "Pesce-cane grosso come una casa di cinque piani e con un treno della strada ferrata in bocca" -- "huge shark [technically 'dog-fish'] like a five-story house and train on a railroad in its mouth." It was subsequent interpretations, like Disney's first version, that portrayed the fish as a whale.
So I don't think it's woke, or too liberal or whatever, to portray elves as different skin colors. We shouldn't keep them white just to avoid pissing off certain audiences.
1: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/52484/52484-h/52484-h.htm
Perhaps I'm an outlier. But, I thought I'd post my thoughts in case others get dissuaded from trying the show based on all the negative feedback. Note, I've only watched the first episode. I watched the show with two other people, of very different interests and ages. We all enjoyed it immensely. - The sets, costumes, and cinematography are fantastic and at times breath-taking. The level of detail in the costumes is…
While the style of the characters clothing is there, it all looks brand new, totally pristine. Just like the characters themselves, all of whom are plastered with impeccable make up. I found it looked silly and amateurish.
On the narrative, I found it overly formal, like it was being recited word for word from Shakespeare or something - it doesn't feel at all like a screenplay, more like actors reading from a book. And I think this impacts terribly on the acting, which I found to be wooden, stiff and unrealistic.
I have not seen it myself, but every criticism I've read so far was complaining about "mandatory woke". Some reviews also mentioned other things they don't like, like costumes not being good or fights being cinematic instead of subdued or characters appearing where they shouldn't be if you take Silmarillion into accord ... but I have not read even one review that didn't include some version of "I hate it because it h…
Its so funny people would care about this for a fantasy world where there are actual different races of humans and elves and little guys.
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> It becomes clear that the black blue fairy was put there to check a box The movie is in English, using exclusively non-Italian actors , which in itself is checking a box. What difference does it make if they cast another non-Italian actor to play a role?
> What difference does it make if they cast another non-Italian actor to play a role? Who said anything about being Italian? I've only quoted the author words (Collodi) The fairy is pale white not because she is a white person, but because she's pure. Pale white skin is not an Italian trait, so I don't understand what Italianness has to do with anything. If anything, the fact that she is pale white makes her obviousl…
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If they don't care about the source material, then a story about Prince Cabosiam and the Dragons of Krongar would be just as fine. When someone pays to use famous names or famous stories as source material, then that's because that's valuable, and then it's self-evident that faithfulness matters.
People love Gandalf, Aragorn, Galadriel, Legolas etc. and want to see more of them. People don't give a crap if any new story is "faithful". And judging faithfulness is subjective anyways, who are you to say the adaption is wrong?
> People don't give a crap if any new story is "faithful".
These two statements contradict. The net effect of it not being faithful, is that it doesn't feel like the Aragorn, Legolas, Galadriel etc. you knew. The casual fans will notice too, just a little later and maybe less consciously than the more dedicated fans.