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AI is getting better at generating porn

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Re: AI is getting better at generating porn

#111

Post by candiodari »

tasuki wrote: post #100
bambax wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a very interesting question that is being systematically sidestepped in these debates. Sexual preferences are a given; some people are attracted to the opposite sex, some people are attracted to the same sex, some people are attracted to children. Nothing they (or anyone) can do about it, lest one decides to indulge in so-called "conversion therapy". Of course, children can't consent, and abusing chil…

> But AI-generated child porn, however nauseating it might sound, doesn't hurt anybody. I suppose it must have been trained on something? Are you 100% sure it's cool to use the sum of all the images of all the children to generate child porn? Also there might be accidental resemblances to particular living children in the produced images, is that ok?

I think most people actually doing something with this technology will be making the maker argument:

"Unless you have real-world means to make your opinions reality ... I don't care about your opinions"

Which goes both in the positive and the negative. Both "show it working or you can't do it" and the negative "prevent me from making it working or shut up". You have zero means to prevent such use of the technology ...

Add to that trillions of dollars in reasons not to outlaw the technology itself.

Attempts to enforce this will be worse, much worse, than the war on drugs. Plus, frankly, drugs do a lot more harm than just allowing this fully would do, so hopefully that will mean less attention going into this.

Re: AI is getting better at generating porn

#112

Post by candiodari »

drdeca wrote: post #93
bambax wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a very interesting question that is being systematically sidestepped in these debates. Sexual preferences are a given; some people are attracted to the opposite sex, some people are attracted to the same sex, some people are attracted to children. Nothing they (or anyone) can do about it, lest one decides to indulge in so-called "conversion therapy". Of course, children can't consent, and abusing chil…

I don’t think the idea that all sexual preferences are innate, really holds much water. There’s no genetic or development-while-in-womb explanation for why some people are specifically sexually into the idea of someone taking on the properties of a giant blueberry. What is a fetish? It is the scar that guides the knife.

One particular sexual preference has children as a result ... and of course we all start as children. The first sexual preference, the first sexual relation anyone is confronted with in their life is heterosexual, simply because that's how childbirth works.

People are deeply uncomfortable with it, especially these days, but of course child-rearing families are the place were nature actually intends there to be sex, where there's almost guaranteed to be sexual activity. Probably the younger the child, the better the odds of sex. And, of course, this is not bad at all: that's how human society has worked for hundreds of thousands of years, how every animal society has worked for a billion or so years.

This probably "gives an advantage" to that particular sexual preference. You learn sexual behaviours, and the first ones you'll learn are heterosexual ones. There's nothing wrong with that ... or at least I don't think there is.

Re: AI is getting better at generating porn

#113

Post by bjourne »

dreampen wrote: post #59
bjourne wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are the default tags babe, busty, perfect boobs, skinny, and perfect body?

Good question. I figured that many people who come to the site will just press generate right away without realizing you can choose tags. When 0 tags are selected, you get weird results. So I wanted to make a good default selection. But maybe a better option is to force users to select some tags first, and start empty?

But why specifically these tags? You avoided answering that. :)

Re: AI is getting better at generating porn

#114

Post by throw0101c »

fyvhbhn wrote: post #6

I wonder if this could help pedophile people since generated porn wouldn't imply abuse of children.

> I wonder if this could help pedophile people since generated porn wouldn't imply abuse of children.

In some jurisdiction even "virtual" child porn is still treated as criminal:

> A sufficient reason, on basis on which Canadian Parliament was warranted to prohibit not only production and distribution (which were not direct question in that case) but also purely private possession of child pornography - even, if it has nothing to do with use of actual children in its production - was, in the Canadian Supreme Court opinion "reasoned apprehension of harm" which may flow from exposing some people to such a materials.

* http://bartlomiejkozlowski.pl/virtualchildporn.htm

Re: AI is getting better at generating porn

#115

Post by [deleted] »

SXX wrote: post #94
hackerlight wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is that viewing AI-generated CSAM by someone who is already a pedophile will increase the probability that they'll decide to go out and abuse a child. Or, it'll foster a cultural acceptance of child abuse, leading people to be more confident to go out and do it. There's no actual data that demonstrates this, given it's hard to study, but it's not implausible. One could make the opposite argument, too. If you…

We can speculate all we want. The fact is: its impossible to apply any real restrictionsn ML model. Just like any DRM this one gonna be easy to bypass and will only degrade experience of legit users and gonna slow down technology advancement. We dont require image editors to have CSAM filters and requiring filter for ML model is madness.

[deleted]

Re: AI is getting better at generating porn

#116

Post by tomjen3 »

hn_throwaway_69 wrote: post #40
bambax wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a very interesting question that is being systematically sidestepped in these debates. Sexual preferences are a given; some people are attracted to the opposite sex, some people are attracted to the same sex, some people are attracted to children. Nothing they (or anyone) can do about it, lest one decides to indulge in so-called "conversion therapy". Of course, children can't consent, and abusing chil…

>doesn't hurt anybody You're looking at it too narrowly. AI-generated CSAM may facilitate a sexual interest in children among certain individuals. Development of such an interest makes it significantly more likely they will abuse children. So it ought be illegal.

You are making a bunch of assumptions, that, if true, are a strong argument for banning it.

In reality, if it is the case that this will satisfy some people desires, then it may be the case that fewer children are abused this way, in which case it would be a bad idea to ban it.

Re: AI is getting better at generating porn

#117

Post by guilhas »

SXX wrote: post #94
hackerlight wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is that viewing AI-generated CSAM by someone who is already a pedophile will increase the probability that they'll decide to go out and abuse a child. Or, it'll foster a cultural acceptance of child abuse, leading people to be more confident to go out and do it. There's no actual data that demonstrates this, given it's hard to study, but it's not implausible. One could make the opposite argument, too. If you…

We can speculate all we want. The fact is: its impossible to apply any real restrictionsn ML model. Just like any DRM this one gonna be easy to bypass and will only degrade experience of legit users and gonna slow down technology advancement. We dont require image editors to have CSAM filters and requiring filter for ML model is madness.

> The fact is: its impossible to apply any real restrictions ML model

What? Of course you can curate what you feed and have filters to train your ML model

I am sure it is currently easier to train a model with legal sex content and without any children

Also the law is still the same, having and distributing pedophilia content is illegal

Re: AI is getting better at generating porn

#118

Post by guilhas »

gruez wrote: post #46
hn_throwaway_69 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>doesn't hurt anybody You're looking at it too narrowly. AI-generated CSAM may facilitate a sexual interest in children among certain individuals. Development of such an interest makes it significantly more likely they will abuse children. So it ought be illegal.

Is this backed empirically? The argument you made is almost identical to the ones used for "grand theft auto is making kids violent!".

I think that does not apply. That would be if criminals in prison were given GTA would they have better or worse chance of rehabilitation?

Re: AI is getting better at generating porn

#119

Post by ceejayoz »

Jensson wrote: post #74
ceejayoz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once it generates them, at your request, you possess them. Don't count on the legal system to go "haha you got me touché" on this.

> Once it generates them, at your request, you possess them. No you don't, it just generated it and display it to the screen, it doesn't save it anywhere, you at no point posses it. Only solution is that everyone who posses a model capable of generating CP is seen as having CP.

> No you don't, it just generated it and display it to the screen, it doesn't save it anywhere, you at no point posses it.

"It's not my pot, officer! I was just holding it for someone!"

If you accidentally generate something inappropriate once with a poorly chosen prompt or an algorithm glitch, and it lives for a few seconds in your RAM before you close it, sure.

If a jury sees your generation history with a bunch of clearly "gimme that CSAM" queries, I wouldn't anticipate an acquittal.

Re: AI is getting better at generating porn

#120

Post by SXX »

guilhas wrote: post #117
SXX wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can speculate all we want. The fact is: its impossible to apply any real restrictionsn ML model. Just like any DRM this one gonna be easy to bypass and will only degrade experience of legit users and gonna slow down technology advancement. We dont require image editors to have CSAM filters and requiring filter for ML model is madness.

> The fact is: its impossible to apply any real restrictions ML model What? Of course you can curate what you feed and have filters to train your ML model I am sure it is currently easier to train a model with legal sex content and without any children Also the law is still the same, having and distributing pedophilia content is illegal

This is not how ML works. You don't need real child abuse material in your training set to make a model capable of creating CSAM. All you need is depictions of any children and any sexual content.
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