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Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

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Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#211

Post by mensetmanusman »

TylerE wrote: post #107
rcarr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone I know who got an apprenticeship after school instead of going to uni are absolutely raking it in and have enjoyed a significantly better quality of life than their uni going peers. I personally can’t see how the uni goers will end up having a better time in the long run as the official narrative goes. The majority of the tradies seem to end up buying multiple houses and going the landlord route for early re…

Ask them about their back and knees when they’re 50.

America is almost 50% obese and average lifespan is dropping. “No one is healthy”

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#212

Post by pessimizer »

AngryData wrote: post #149
bee_rider wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sitting in a chair is really unhealthy, so it isn't like the programmers have dodged selling their bodies for a nice salary.

Do you really think sitting in a chair is even comparable to move hundred or thousands of pounds of work materials at a time, being bent or twisted into access holes, being exposed to various construction dusts and materials, or even just working in often excessively hot or cold environments?

I think it's worth looking at, rather than making an assumption. Tradespeople are a lot more physically fit than the median office drone. I had abs when I worked on the factory floor, when I was promoted to the offices, I put on 40 lbs.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#213

Post by dontlaugh »

chris_j wrote: post #187
LAC-Tech wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why the reference to Geordies - natives of Newcastle - when the plant is in Sunderland? Google maps tells me those two places are only 14.3 miles away. So 1) that's pretty understandable to conflate and 2) a lot of people from Newcastle probably commute there.

The reason I noticed it is that the two cities, though very close geographically, have an intense and not entirely friendly rivalry that goes back hundreds of years and continues to this day. See for example the History section of [0]. Although it's understandable that someone not familiar with the area could confuse the two places, friends from Sunderland tell that they are pretty offended when they are mistaken for…

I don’t know that it’s universal. At least some people I know from Sunderland call themselves Geordies.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#214

Post by dougabug »

BeetleB wrote: post #123
tristor wrote: post #63

I have worked with a lot of people that escaped from fab jobs here in the US during my career. The biggest issue I see is that manufacturing has an absolutely grueling schedule and the pay is half or less than what equivalent level software jobs pay, with worse working conditions. If you want young Americans to work these jobs, you need to pay /more/ than software jobs, because the conditions are worse. Otherwise, yo…

Most jobs Americans do are not in SW and pay a lot less than SW. Saying an industry won't thrive because the work is hard and the pay is less than SW is silly.

Well, at least the people won’t thrive if the work is hard and the pay is low. Some people frame this as some kind of character defect on the part of Americans, but to me it just seems like common sense to avoid hard work for low pay, if possible (unless the work is stupendously interesting).

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#215

Post by pessimizer »

bmismyname wrote: post #84
jjk166 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once the captain abandons ship, why should anyone else be manning their posts? If you do not have the power to change the situation, the best move is to adapt to it, and in times of societal collapse that means looking out for yourself.

Why get on the ship in the first place? Was I forced onto the ship as a slave to be sold to the highest bidder in America? Or am I the captain of the ship who will get to keep all the riches? There can only be one captain. If I'm forced onto that ship as a slave, I will do everything I can to break the chains and free my comrades. No matter what kind of riches I'm promised, I won't be the captain of any slave ship, t…

> If I'm forced onto that ship as a slave, I will do everything I can to break the chains and free my comrades.

And you'll be thrown overboard and everyone else (other than the people who you pulled into your plan, who will swim with you) will just get on with the business of surviving. You're not braver than or morally superior to millions of imported slaves. The Atlantic was filled with slaves who didn't think that the material world applied to them.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#216

Post by matheusmoreira »

nixass wrote: post #193
cxr wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't corroborate this at all. I come from a CS background. If you leave school and enter the workforce at SAS, you will be at a disadvantage insofar as you are looking for a workplace that you hope to learn something from or one that you hope reinforces good engineering practices. The semiconductor industry, from the vantage point of an experienced systems thinker, reinforces awful engineering practices. All the t…

Drunk is not an excuse for such a crappy view on the world

Why? Maybe the world really is that bad.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#217

Post by Der_Einzige »

cxr wrote: post #164
bob1029 wrote: post #10

I worked at the Samsung A2/S2 lines in ATX with a bunch of young Americans back around 2011-2013. I would say they absolutely would. It's a very high-energy place with more going on than you can ever hope to keep track of. Even if the technology doesn't interest you, the cultural interactions should. You could have some days with Japanese, Koreans and Americans translating 3-ways in a conference room. Opportunities f…

I can't corroborate this at all. I come from a CS background. If you leave school and enter the workforce at SAS, you will be at a disadvantage insofar as you are looking for a workplace that you hope to learn something from or one that you hope reinforces good engineering practices. The semiconductor industry, from the vantage point of an experienced systems thinker, reinforces awful engineering practices. All the t…

All this because Intel couldn't pay market rate for SWEs. Lol

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#218

Post by CobaltFire »

I’m retiring from the military with a cross section of skills that seem to be in demand for semi manufacturing, so have had a few conversations with recruiters. The wages on offer weren’t terrible, but given the best offer came from San Jose and it was right about a mortgage on a 3/2 after taxes I’m not sure if that’s sustainable comp.

That said, there are other comments here about semi manufacturing pulling from defense and it seems to be true, as even before I’ve started applying those are the companies reaching out with offers in hand.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#219

Post by pessimizer »

bmismyname wrote: post #47
Apocryphon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What came first? Societal collapse or the willingness of its citizens to lay down and take it? The previous poster's description of the problem isn't by force of nature. It's by other people ("huge bonuses for the CEOs while the workers have to struggle to pay rent"). Perhaps the CEOs should offer some concessions to the young workers.

Indeed. Eventually there will be a revolution if the wealth concentration trend continues. I'm on the side of the working class forever and always, as I grew up dirt poor (and got exceptionally lucky because of my early interest in computers) and my family is still dirt poor today, so I have a good idea of what it's _actually_ like to starve.

> Eventually there will be a revolution if the wealth concentration trend continues.

I think surveillance and drone/robocop technology will make popular revolutions a thing of the past. People will be actively monitored if they even smell slightly rebellious to an algorithm, will be warned if they seem to be taking themselves seriously, and will be imprisoned if they don't have the appropriate reaction to a warning.

People need privacy and private ways to communicate in order to rebel. All of our movements will be monitored by our phones and street cameras with facial recognition. Cellphone conversations will be terminated with a warning if the algo detects Russian/Chinese/Iranian//North Korean/French(since 2031) propaganda being used to sow discord and evil.

We'll get back to remembering that wars, even civil, are when inbred princes and kings argue, not people with healthy genetics.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#220

Post by trinovantes »

graton wrote: post #42

Tangentially related is the lack of young people entering the "trades" (plumbing, electrical, construction, etc). Can't help but think that now is probably a good time to enter a "trade" due to the lack of people who are doing that.

In my area trades are almost impossible to enter if you do not have family/friend that's willing to take you on as an apprentice. It pays well but is also heavily gated by nepotism.
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