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Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

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Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#151

Post by Existenceblinks »

Excellent. My background is computer engineering who enrolled shit load of computer network classes, interned for a Cisco gold partner, but then switched to software development. At some points my network engineers friends (and hardware stuff engineers) turned into software development, mostly web development.

I'd like to add one more factor here. It's transferable knowledge AND cheap cost of building your own business. When I was an intern to install and config a bunch of switches, routers, firewalls, and realized a switch is so expensive that I wouldn't be able to build my own business like this. So I got into software development job. It's way easier and also able to do side software project. IaaS or PaaS is so cheap, no needs to mess with data center myself.

Work for X for a decade and open your own X business is not applicable to semiconductor job.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#152

Post by wyre »

bee_rider wrote: post #135
TylerE wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask them about their back and knees when they’re 50.

Sitting in a chair is really unhealthy, so it isn't like the programmers have dodged selling their bodies for a nice salary.

Stranding desks and treadmill desks also exist. Employers might even buy you one if you ask!

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#153

Post by EddySchauHai »

tristor wrote: post #63

I have worked with a lot of people that escaped from fab jobs here in the US during my career. The biggest issue I see is that manufacturing has an absolutely grueling schedule and the pay is half or less than what equivalent level software jobs pay, with worse working conditions. If you want young Americans to work these jobs, you need to pay /more/ than software jobs, because the conditions are worse. Otherwise, yo…

The hardest job I had paid minimum wage when I was 16 in the UK - 3.98 an hour. I make more money taking a crap as a software engineer than I made in an 8 hour day as a developer. That's not a joke, I did the math the other day. People work much harder jobs than sw for much lower wages all over the country and world.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#154

Post by dangus »

bmismyname wrote: post #89
dangus wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person you replied to has some...interesting opinions about psychedelics...anyway... > As world views become bleak, is encouraging people to say "fuck it" and maximize for enjoyment really the best move? The answer to this question is obviously yes. Why wouldn't anyone maximize for life enjoyment? I hardly think that's equivalent to saying "fuck it." Here's the thing: the video talks about the career track of sem…

You should try psychedelics, or at least read a few books on them. It probably won't change your life, but it'll definitely give you new perspectives. In my case, I think it made me a better person, and I find I have much better relationships now.

Is badgering people to do psychedelics in situations with zero contextual relevance to doing psychedelics one of the ways in which you've become a better person, or is that a remaining negative personality trait where a few more psychedelic sessions might cure you of the affliction?

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#155

Post by Apocryphon »

chitowneats wrote: post #146
Apocryphon wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If software engineering is such a cushy, desirable, lucrative job, why don't more people do it? Lots of people are, and try, that's why bootcamps and Leetcode prep have been so big for the past decade. More and more people are joining, but also there's a lot of demand so jobs are unfilled. (You're also completely failing to read when I said "that work isn't necessarily easier".) My point is that a lot of people gra…

"That work isn't necessarily easier", is obviously implying that it can be easier, or is roughly equivalent. Your entire comment was a clever way of turning the tables on software engineers. Please don't insult my intelligence by pretending otherwise. > My point is your comment about "attitudes exacerbating downward mobility" have nothing to do with why people don't want to work in semiconductor manufacturing. It has…

> Your entire comment was a clever way of turning the tables on software engineers. Please don't insult my intelligence by pretending otherwise.

Thank you for calling me clever, but getting personal in a comment section isn't exactly amenable to discussion. Not to mention, ignoring all of the other points mentioned in the reply. I will accept your compliment, however.

> It has everything to do with why they don't want to do software engineering. I can't tell you how many of my educated peers think it's "lame" or "selling out" to work in a skilled career rather than being a bartender, activist, starving artist, etc.

What does that have to do with them not wanting to work in semiconductor manufacturing, which generally pays less than median software engineering salaries and is less sought-after? Do you actually have any comments germane to the discussion at hand? Are your educated peers actually eschewing well-paid skilled careers, either in software engineering or not, in favor of those other professions you've listed? What other careers are they pursuing instead? Are you attempting to establish a link between them calling those professions '"lame" or "selling out"' and downwards mobility? How old are these peers, and do they actually exist? What is your actual point here?

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#158

Post by bluedino »

ElevenLathe wrote: post #133
dmitriy_ko wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> poly breaker, where they have three shifts of people in protective suits that smash large pieces of silicon down with hammers Why is this done manually? wouldn't it be easy to automate?

No idea, but assuming this guy doesn't live in mid-Michigan, there's a plant here that hires people to do the same thing.

Talking about HSC ;)

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#159

Post by Apocryphon »

moomin wrote: post #112
JimmieMcnulty wrote: post #14

Honestly, based on the content of this video and the replies from the prior HN thread, it seems like folks are locked into the belief that the current manufacturing... "experience" (for lack of a better term) for the workers involved will be lifted from Asia and dropped into the US, but that doesn't actually make any sense to me. Sure, that's how the world knows how to make chips now, but given the varying laws betwe…

Nissan ran a very successful car manufacturing facility for many years in the U.K. This kind of cultural adaptation is exactly how they did it. And it turns out that Geordies were more than capable of executing “The Nissan Way”.

Another attempt, where Toyota and GM attempted to build a plant together in Fremont, California:

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/561/nummi-2015

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#160

Post by ejb999 »

stonemetal12 wrote: post #60
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #31

A substantial perk would be subsidized housing. A modern fab can cost ~$20B (maybe more in the US) and obviously the planning and permit process is likely also a couple order of magnitudes more difficult than normal real estate development. Spending ~$100M on employee housing would make the compensation a lot more competitive since software salaries are high but tend to be located in HCOL areas. Spend another ~$100M…

I could see it working if it were indirect and at arms length. A bit of a planned neighborhood that included High and medium density housing near the factory, maybe kick a few bucks the developers way to get it built right. That way there is supply of reasonably priced housing nearby. I wouldn't directly subsidize it though, that would become bigger shackles than work provided health care.

>>I wouldn't directly subsidize it though, that would become bigger shackles than work provided health care.

Correct, factory towns worked out great for the factory owners - not so much for the people that worked there.

Having a good supply of affordable housing nearby any facility that needs to hire a lot of low to middle paying people is probably a good thing, but letting the company run and control it will inevitably lead to abuses imo.

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