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Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

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Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#81

Post by Apocryphon »

chitowneats wrote: post #69
Apocryphon wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bare minimum But a lot of people aren't even doing that. They're choosing to pick more lucrative career paths such as pushing JavaScript for cat photo social networks, working on ways to increase engagement for users to see ads, and whatever other ways FAANGs previously propped up by low interest rates, or startups propped up by VC funding, make money. That work isn't necessarily easier, but it's not semiconductor…

I hear these arguments all the time. If software engineering is such a cushy, desirable, lucrative job, why don't more people do it? It's easy to forget the thousands of hours it takes to become competent in this field once you've been in it for a while. Most people simply do not care enough to take the time to learn to do it despite being fully capable. It ain't rocket surgery.

> If software engineering is such a cushy, desirable, lucrative job, why don't more people do it?

Lots of people are, and try, that's why bootcamps and Leetcode prep have been so big for the past decade. More and more people are joining, but also there's a lot of demand so jobs are unfilled.

(You're also completely failing to read when I said "that work isn't necessarily easier".)

My point is that a lot of people gravitate towards those hot industries, definitely more people than those going to lesser-paying industries in say semiconductor manufacturing, which is what TFA is about. My point is your comment about "attitudes exacerbating downward mobility" have nothing to do with why people don't want to work in semiconductor manufacturing.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#82

Post by bmismyname »

godelski wrote: post #70
polishdude20 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This world view seems like a potential death spiral. As world views become bleak, is encouraging people to say "fuck it" and maximize for enjoyment really the best move? Whatever happened to working hard to build a future for oneself? Yes, I understand there are higher powers that be and people with much more powers than you and I that are ruining the future but is the answer really to lay down and be engulfed in the…

I think what is most insidious about this world view is that working on solutions to the issues appear as support for the viewpoint. We're all problem solvers here and we all know that the first thing to creating something new is recognizing a problem that can be solved. It can then be broken down into many sub problems that can either be worked on individually or need to be solved in tandem. But breaking down our pr…

Personally I'm not saying "fuck it", but I have reached the point where I just won't go along with the bullshit anymore. I'm going to fight.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#83

Post by godelski »

jleyank wrote: post #2

I think it will come down to money. People work with hot tar in the blazing sun for money, and toil in Amazon warehouses for money. Make it worth people's while and yeah, they'll work in semiconducting manufacturing.

It is interesting how often people push back against this solution. We see so many people choose careers based on the projected earnings. It is even a stereotype for immigrants: you can be a doctor, lawyer, (or now) software engineer. Ironically I think the rich would get richer if they chose to pay many of these employees more. We often frame things as zero sum games, but clearly this is a positive sum one. You invent new things and new wealth has entered the world.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#84

Post by bmismyname »

jjk166 wrote: post #61
polishdude20 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This world view seems like a potential death spiral. As world views become bleak, is encouraging people to say "fuck it" and maximize for enjoyment really the best move? Whatever happened to working hard to build a future for oneself? Yes, I understand there are higher powers that be and people with much more powers than you and I that are ruining the future but is the answer really to lay down and be engulfed in the…

Once the captain abandons ship, why should anyone else be manning their posts? If you do not have the power to change the situation, the best move is to adapt to it, and in times of societal collapse that means looking out for yourself.

Why get on the ship in the first place? Was I forced onto the ship as a slave to be sold to the highest bidder in America? Or am I the captain of the ship who will get to keep all the riches?

There can only be one captain. If I'm forced onto that ship as a slave, I will do everything I can to break the chains and free my comrades. No matter what kind of riches I'm promised, I won't be the captain of any slave ship, that's for sure.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#85

Post by imtringued »

polishdude20 wrote: post #16
bmismyname wrote: post #6

Will there be low wages with huge bonuses for the CEOs while the workers have to struggle to pay rent? Young people know the future is not bright, and I encourage them to enjoy their lives while they still can.

This world view seems like a potential death spiral. As world views become bleak, is encouraging people to say "fuck it" and maximize for enjoyment really the best move? Whatever happened to working hard to build a future for oneself? Yes, I understand there are higher powers that be and people with much more powers than you and I that are ruining the future but is the answer really to lay down and be engulfed in the…

It's a prisoners dilemma. Someone cheats and you can either not cheat and be treated like a fool while the cheater gets all the status and attention and calls you stupid and says that you deserve it or you can cheat, walk toward the cliff and fall off together with the cheater.

From a societal standpoint we should teach our children to just let themselves be cheated and work anyway and shoulder the burden of the cheaters because even if cheaters ruin your life, they only ruin your life, not society as a whole, which only is only ruined if you cheat back.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#86

Post by bmismyname »

powerslacker wrote: post #65
polishdude20 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This world view seems like a potential death spiral. As world views become bleak, is encouraging people to say "fuck it" and maximize for enjoyment really the best move? Whatever happened to working hard to build a future for oneself? Yes, I understand there are higher powers that be and people with much more powers than you and I that are ruining the future but is the answer really to lay down and be engulfed in the…

If life is ultimately meaningless then why not? The world you are talking about where people work to better the future for themselves and their progeny is reliant on life having some kind of purpose or meaning. If the universe is the result of random chance and life itself is the result of accidental chemical processes then life doesn't have inherent meaning. Why SHOULD someone who believes the things I've mentioned…

"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different."

– Kurt Vonnegut

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#87

Post by godelski »

bmismyname wrote: post #78
godelski wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Suggesting that they can't be solved is tantamount to telling humanity to give up and die. Not only that, but it is _actively_ participating in the cyberpunk dystopia that they are saying is inevitable. If evil only needs good men to do nothing to grow, problems only need us to give up to become worse. (I'm clearly no poet)

This is a game where the only way to win is to not play, or to have rich parents.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You're talking on a form full of people who code for a living. Many who have seen their lives become substantially better. There are many problems and challenges that we still face, but that doesn't mean there are no solutions.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#88

Post by godelski »

bmismyname wrote: post #82
godelski wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what is most insidious about this world view is that working on solutions to the issues appear as support for the viewpoint. We're all problem solvers here and we all know that the first thing to creating something new is recognizing a problem that can be solved. It can then be broken down into many sub problems that can either be worked on individually or need to be solved in tandem. But breaking down our pr…

Personally I'm not saying "fuck it", but I have reached the point where I just won't go along with the bullshit anymore. I'm going to fight.

Sounds like you are playing the game then. Good. Fight to make the world better instead of selling depression. Depression is contagious after all.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#89

Post by bmismyname »

dangus wrote: post #71
polishdude20 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This world view seems like a potential death spiral. As world views become bleak, is encouraging people to say "fuck it" and maximize for enjoyment really the best move? Whatever happened to working hard to build a future for oneself? Yes, I understand there are higher powers that be and people with much more powers than you and I that are ruining the future but is the answer really to lay down and be engulfed in the…

The person you replied to has some...interesting opinions about psychedelics...anyway... > As world views become bleak, is encouraging people to say "fuck it" and maximize for enjoyment really the best move? The answer to this question is obviously yes. Why wouldn't anyone maximize for life enjoyment? I hardly think that's equivalent to saying "fuck it." Here's the thing: the video talks about the career track of sem…

You should try psychedelics, or at least read a few books on them. It probably won't change your life, but it'll definitely give you new perspectives. In my case, I think it made me a better person, and I find I have much better relationships now.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#90

Post by imtringued »

bmismyname wrote: post #73
rs999gti wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the wealth concentration trend continues Or unsustainable housing costs

Housing is treated as an investment these days, instead of as housing. That's the fundamental cause of unaffordability, and it exacerbates the problem. It's easily fixed with the right policies, but at this point it can never be fixed (with a huge political left turn, maybe). Making it easier to obtain leverage doesn't make housing cheaper, it just makes the prices go even higher faster.

It's the same with money, when money deflates it's treated as an investment too, not a medium of exchange.

Just like housing being too expensive ruins it's ability to provide housing for everyone, money being too expensive causes a recession and unemployment.

The difference however is that money can be created through borrowing so it doesn't go up in value but housing is restricted through zoning and the availability of land, you just can't make more of it.

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