Very good video outlining the context, problems, and bringing info from social media (hn) and other news!
Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]
141–150 of 349 posts
Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]
#142Honestly, based on the content of this video and the replies from the prior HN thread, it seems like folks are locked into the belief that the current manufacturing... "experience" (for lack of a better term) for the workers involved will be lifted from Asia and dropped into the US, but that doesn't actually make any sense to me. Sure, that's how the world knows how to make chips now, but given the varying laws betwe…
>As an outsider, it seems pretty clear that the rejection to the industry is more about the cultural mismatch than it is to the actual work needing to be executed. Look at Intel. It's a western company, but it famously fell behind its competitors due to offering comparatively shit pay and conditions to its staff, so the best people left. The problem is hardware company culture, not Asian company culture. Apple's M1 i…
Look at Intel. It's a western company, but it famously fell behind its competitors due to offering comparatively shit pay and conditions to its staff, so the best people left.
As far as I know, working in a non-chip part of Intel in the 90s, the place was always an abusive sweatshop except maybe for some top people. And Intel isn't some failed from the start enterprise - they're currently third or so in a long, long competition among fabs, chip-makers and etc. They had a long, long successful run while being awful.
Essentially, model the of gaslighting, abusing and discarding people works great as long as a company can keep their employee's illusions alive and/or trapping them so they have no choices regardless.
As far as I know, Apple pays well compared to the US median for a job but poorly relative to other FANG companies. Plenty of tales of abuse and secrecy exist in Apple but plenty of people assert the virtues of working there and show great loyalty.
Which is to say these practices are very common in globally competitive markets. A company that pays well and inspires great loyalty and hard work from it's employees can always be undercut by a company that pays shit and still inspires great loyalty and hard work from it's employees. And if the model falls-apart, it can be rebuilt elsewhere (this is the problem/challenge of markets that are truly global).
Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]
#143Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]
#144I think young americans will work wherever the money is. I see people everyday (both american and non) that are in software because that's what pays right now.
You just have to talk to the nearest product owner, project manager, or bootcamp grad for an example.
Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]
#145Depends on the role. There's a place nearby where they produce raw silicon. They are rated three of five stars on Famous_Job_Site, and they only hire through a temp service, and you can be there ten years before getting hired in directly. Rules like if you miss X days or are late Y times you get fired. The worst job is probably poly breaker, where they have three shifts of people in protective suits that smash large…
Correct. Too many people think shiny Infinity Loop One office when chips come up. The reality is that chip designers are like 0.1% of the available roles. Fab workers/supervisors/maintenance etc are maybe 25% and the rest is in a very very long tail of supply chain involving lots of vary hazardous chemicals and shitty manual labour. I'm all for trying to diversify semi-conductor manufacturing but I really doubt Ameri…
This ignores the fact that there’s a number of companies that currently fab semiconductors in the United States. Phoenix/Mesa is one epicenter, but there’s also some high tech fabs in Oregon and New York.
Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hear these arguments all the time. If software engineering is such a cushy, desirable, lucrative job, why don't more people do it? It's easy to forget the thousands of hours it takes to become competent in this field once you've been in it for a while. Most people simply do not care enough to take the time to learn to do it despite being fully capable. It ain't rocket surgery.
> If software engineering is such a cushy, desirable, lucrative job, why don't more people do it? Lots of people are, and try, that's why bootcamps and Leetcode prep have been so big for the past decade. More and more people are joining, but also there's a lot of demand so jobs are unfilled. (You're also completely failing to read when I said "that work isn't necessarily easier".) My point is that a lot of people gra…
"That work isn't necessarily easier", is obviously implying that it can be easier, or is roughly equivalent. Your entire comment was a clever way of turning the tables on software engineers. Please don't insult my intelligence by pretending otherwise.
> My point is your comment about "attitudes exacerbating downward mobility" have nothing to do with why people don't want to work in semiconductor manufacturing.
It has everything to do with why they don't want to do software engineering. I can't tell you how many of my educated peers think it's "lame" or "selling out" to work in a skilled career rather than being a bartender, activist, starving artist, etc.
Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]
#147Honestly, based on the content of this video and the replies from the prior HN thread, it seems like folks are locked into the belief that the current manufacturing... "experience" (for lack of a better term) for the workers involved will be lifted from Asia and dropped into the US, but that doesn't actually make any sense to me. Sure, that's how the world knows how to make chips now, but given the varying laws betwe…
Since there's several car manufacturing comparisons of American manufacturing adapting to East Asian manufacturing culture, I feel like there's consensus that Japanese built cars still have tighter QC than ones built in North America. Better fit etc, the kind of details in semi and would compound when moving from millimeters to nanometers. My understanding is the commitment for semi technicians / equipment engineers are also much more rigorous, people being practically married to their stations. Hard to say if high-end chip manufacturing processes refined under East Asian sweatshop work culture that's still better than the alternative can be adapated to west.
Which is not to say American's can't make chips, perhaps with less efficiency. Which ultimately doesn't matter because semi is being elevated to critical strategic industry and the governemnt's money printer is going to keep US fabs open regardless of how competitive US fabs are.
Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
"really" unhealthy
Quotes for emphasis?
Quotes are because you are comparing damage from sitting in a chair that can be mitigated by walking around, standing, and working out, to inevitable damage from inhaling fumes and particles, lifting objects, and repeatedly contorting one’s body and putting pressure on joints that have a far higher probability of irreversible damage.
Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ask them about their back and knees when they’re 50.
Sitting in a chair is really unhealthy, so it isn't like the programmers have dodged selling their bodies for a nice salary.
Do you really think sitting in a chair is even comparable to move hundred or thousands of pounds of work materials at a time, being bent or twisted into access holes, being exposed to various construction dusts and materials, or even just working in often excessively hot or cold environments?
Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]
#150Will there be low wages with huge bonuses for the CEOs while the workers have to struggle to pay rent? Young people know the future is not bright, and I encourage them to enjoy their lives while they still can.
This world view seems like a potential death spiral. As world views become bleak, is encouraging people to say "fuck it" and maximize for enjoyment really the best move? Whatever happened to working hard to build a future for oneself? Yes, I understand there are higher powers that be and people with much more powers than you and I that are ruining the future but is the answer really to lay down and be engulfed in the…
And what are they building toward if most people are consistently losing wages under inflation and the wealthy keep getting wealth injections from the government? Many people sees this only going two ways, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer so they will likely spend their lifetime just barely surviving, or there is a huge economic crash from the top heavy economy in which case anything they built gets smashed to pieces anyways.
Most people these days have seen multiple large economic crashes and swings and have very little faith that our economic systems are stable or sustainable. Prospects for the bottom 2/3 of the population are negative, stability is questionable, long term sustainability isn't anywhere near feasible yet.
You get one life, might as well enjoy it while you can. Not just labor your days away for the short term benefits of the few.