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Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

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Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#111

Post by paulmd »

worstestes wrote: post #12
yoyopa wrote: post #7

Quoted post unavailable.

Ah yes, blame labor. If apple, or really any tech/manufacturing company, want a workforce they need to pay for it accordingly. Money talks. My question to you — do you work in manufacturing? Why or why not?

Dunno why people are picking on apple here… what I have heard from people who worked at Intel is that apple is known in the industry for, I quote, “turning Intel’s training pipeline into a waiting room for apple HR”. After working at Intel for two weeks you are highly likely to get an offer from apple for twice your Intel salary and a lot of people take it.

Apple is basically known for paying far above market to retain the best talent, and apple silicon reflects that (or did during the last 10 years although supposedly there has been something of an exodus over the last few). Whereas it’s really Intel who is notorious for playing the “who can we get at 75% of the going market rate” game.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#112

Post by moomin »

JimmieMcnulty wrote: post #14

Honestly, based on the content of this video and the replies from the prior HN thread, it seems like folks are locked into the belief that the current manufacturing... "experience" (for lack of a better term) for the workers involved will be lifted from Asia and dropped into the US, but that doesn't actually make any sense to me. Sure, that's how the world knows how to make chips now, but given the varying laws betwe…

Nissan ran a very successful car manufacturing facility for many years in the U.K. This kind of cultural adaptation is exactly how they did it. And it turns out that Geordies were more than capable of executing “The Nissan Way”.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#113

Post by geodel »

Bakary wrote: post #51
the_lonely_road wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its low skill/high supply that's the problem here. The fact is a nanny is only servicing one family and so their entire economic input must be a fraction of that family's income. Same problem hair stylist faces compared to a software developer. You can only cut so many heads of hair in a single day which limits your total possible income to a fraction of mine because a billion people can buy my software…

I don't think it's so clear cut. Baumol costs disease already goes a long way, and developers only receive exponential rewards if they have significant equity. Some can go solo or succeed at the startup route but they are a minority. Furthermore, with AI becoming increasingly sophisticated, we might see a seachange in developer salaries with only the most talented and valuable devs getting massive increases and all t…

Very true. I see that bi-modal salary distribution is already happening in many places. In fact at lot of places even pretty good s/w skills might not matter. So there are run-of-the-mill Java/.net/PHP etc developer jobs which will get a low band salary irrespective of actual skill level. And then Reactive/Mobile/Kubernetes/Deep-learning developer jobs which by default are set in higher-band salary.

Another thing I think in cloud with pre-packaged solution (not just individual pieces of sw/hw) for most common situations and metered billing, providers are going to take major chunks of IT budgets. It would be similar to past when hardware cost was high so developer would get lower portion of overall budget.

In my mind the era of on-prem systems, custom solutions with high paying FTE jobs is coming to an end. And the myth developers are kings is going to go away along with that.

Yeah, 1-2 per cent of total IT workforce working for cloud providers will be compensated well. Remaining 95% will be either short term gigs or low pay FTE jobs called Cloud Connectivity Developer II and so on.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#114

Post by okdood64 »

bobthepanda wrote: post #37
Curzel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree… only issue might be managers and supervisors coming from manufacturing in Asia, they will have to re-learn how to treat workers, but I am hopeful

I mean, Toyota and Hyundai make cars in the South, so that particular lesson has been learned before

Are we lumping up modern Japanese, Korean and Taiwanese culture into one now?

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#115

Post by KerrAvon »

nightski wrote: post #110
logicchains wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As an outsider, it seems pretty clear that the rejection to the industry is more about the cultural mismatch than it is to the actual work needing to be executed. Look at Intel. It's a western company, but it famously fell behind its competitors due to offering comparatively shit pay and conditions to its staff, so the best people left. The problem is hardware company culture, not Asian company culture. Apple's M1 i…

Isn't M1 manufactured by TSMC? Are you saying TSMC has good pay and treats it's workers great? (it might I honestly don't know).

I'm not taking a position either way, butI believe the poster is talking about the design/integration phase.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#116

Post by bluedino »

Depends on the role.

There's a place nearby where they produce raw silicon. They are rated three of five stars on Famous_Job_Site, and they only hire through a temp service, and you can be there ten years before getting hired in directly. Rules like if you miss X days or are late Y times you get fired.

The worst job is probably poly breaker, where they have three shifts of people in protective suits that smash large pieces of silicon down with hammers.

Last I heard you get $14/hr. They are always hiring and nobody wants to work there.

https://imgur.com/a/OmqsEuM

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#117

Post by okdood64 »

abdullah2993 wrote: post #76

What a wonderful solution. Lets pay software engineers less so they are forced to work on hardware. Why not just have higher pays for semiconductor people since they are crucial?

> Lets pay software engineers less

That was hardly the point of the video's thesis.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#118

Post by gopher_space »

bob1029 wrote: post #10

I worked at the Samsung A2/S2 lines in ATX with a bunch of young Americans back around 2011-2013. I would say they absolutely would. It's a very high-energy place with more going on than you can ever hope to keep track of. Even if the technology doesn't interest you, the cultural interactions should. You could have some days with Japanese, Koreans and Americans translating 3-ways in a conference room. Opportunities f…

> Some roles can be far more exciting than others. Someone has to work security and manage the facilities.

This would be an interesting employer for many trades.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#119

Post by 77pt77 »

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #39
chitowneats wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are all real issues. That's why I used the term "exacerbate". Those who do the bare minimum to get by in life are only hurting themselves in the long run. This remains true despite a gloomy macroeconomic outlook.

"I know you're struggling to pick between rent and food, but have considered working harder?"

>Working 3 times harder for half the pay is still making 50% more.

I can't stand these delusions.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#120

Post by BeetleB »

logicchains wrote: post #109
JimmieMcnulty wrote: post #14

Honestly, based on the content of this video and the replies from the prior HN thread, it seems like folks are locked into the belief that the current manufacturing... "experience" (for lack of a better term) for the workers involved will be lifted from Asia and dropped into the US, but that doesn't actually make any sense to me. Sure, that's how the world knows how to make chips now, but given the varying laws betwe…

>As an outsider, it seems pretty clear that the rejection to the industry is more about the cultural mismatch than it is to the actual work needing to be executed. Look at Intel. It's a western company, but it famously fell behind its competitors due to offering comparatively shit pay and conditions to its staff, so the best people left. The problem is hardware company culture, not Asian company culture. Apple's M1 i…

Apple's M1 is an irrelevant comparison. Apple doesn't run a fab. Yes, Intel lost a lot of chip designers, etc, but the submission is about fab related work, which Apple is not involved in.
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