Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't understand that? If you have functioning nuclear, why would you ever go to wind and solar. A few reasons: The amount of fissile materials on Earth isn't infinite. As far as I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong... this is not my professional background), there are only ~230 years of uranium available.[1] And that's at today's consumption rates; build the amount of reactors we need and it's even less.…
Today's nuclear reactors only extract about 2% of the energy in natural uranium, fast reactors could extract many times more by producing Pu239 and other fissile actinides from relatively abundant U238. Since uranium is water soluble there are large amounts in the ocean and if fast reactors were made economical it would be practical to extract from seawater, seawater uranium is a renewable resource because uranium is…
California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online
21–30 of 50 posts
Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online
#22Now if only we could get more reactors built. According to the New York Times, Diablo Canyon provides 9% of California's electricity[1]. It astounds me that a single generating station like that can provide a whopping 9% of California's electricity. Assuming the same capacity, four more stations would take it to 45%. That's nearly half of your electricity for a state as large as California from a stable, reliable, an…
Diablo Canyon was supposed to be far larger then it ended up being. Would have been amazing. > I know nuclear isn't perfect and building new reactors is a huge challenge but it's a great stopgap solution for the next 100-odd years until a sufficient amount of solar & wind can be deployed to replace the reactors. I don't understand that? If you have functioning nuclear, why would you ever go to wind and solar. Do you…
It's a common misconception that you have to run nuclear power plants at 100% output all the time. That was true in 1970 but newer plants can adjust their output to meet demand, some even do so on a continuous basis to stabilize the frequency of the electric grid.
https://www.oecd-nea.org/upload/docs/application/pdf/2021-12...
The resulting changes in temperature put some stress on the parts of the reactor because of thermal expansion but it is something the reactor can be built to tolerate.
Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online
#23Good news. Although I am wary of nuclear's sustainability due to usage of fresh water (another limited resource in our climate crisis days)... I mean look at France nuclear + dry rivers... I think Nuclear should be part of our basket of energy sources (as it's baseload) to combat climate change.
> I am wary of nuclear's sustainability due to usage of fresh water I feel like there should be ways to engineer around this especially for reactors near the coast. Use some of the power from the plant to desalinate sea water or engineer to use sea water?
https://www.osti.gov/biblio/6367683
I seem to recall Jackie Srouji (a navy intelligence agent who got busted when she talked big to a reporter after Karen Silkwood died under mysterious circumstances) also got busted by Navy Seals when she went for a swim to check out the water intakes for the San Onofre power station near San Diego.
Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online
#24Now if only we could get more reactors built. According to the New York Times, Diablo Canyon provides 9% of California's electricity[1]. It astounds me that a single generating station like that can provide a whopping 9% of California's electricity. Assuming the same capacity, four more stations would take it to 45%. That's nearly half of your electricity for a state as large as California from a stable, reliable, an…
Diablo Canyon was supposed to be far larger then it ended up being. Would have been amazing. > I know nuclear isn't perfect and building new reactors is a huge challenge but it's a great stopgap solution for the next 100-odd years until a sufficient amount of solar & wind can be deployed to replace the reactors. I don't understand that? If you have functioning nuclear, why would you ever go to wind and solar. Do you…
That doesn't mean nuclear is a bad thing, especially when you consider the externalities and production costs of other systems. It's just not a miracle electricity device. Personally I'm looking forward to the point people realize you don't totally need the whole "electric generator" aspect of nuclear and start direct connecting it to things that need heat, like desalination
Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online
#25Where would you rank US-west in terms of "industrialised places where its easiest to phase out fossils or nuclear for renewables"?
Because for my money, it may be the best-suited place in the world.
- Lowish latitude, so winter nights are never that long, and usage peaks are in summer; - Fair amount of land - even in CA, especially if we cheat a bit and assume NV is playing ball; - Lots of money.
And even there, nuclear or gas are still necessary. Maybe Australia beats it.
I can say this, Europe - including the UK - has over the last two decades made the worst energy decisions, probably ever. Winter peaking with 16 hour nights, and last year we had week-long periods with generation of, to all intents and purposes, zero useful power from wind during that period. For what its worth, this year Germany restarted 8 GW of coal, and I'm sorry but no other country in the world should be listening to European lectures on climate ever again after that. Wholesale costs have exceeded $500 per MWh, they briefly peaked in London at $9000, and the same amount of battery storage costs $100,000. I have talked to investors on the latter figure and none expect that figure to decrease significantly. Raw materials will not humour your optimism.
Pardon me, what the actual fuck are we supposed to do?
Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online
#26Now if only we could get more reactors built. According to the New York Times, Diablo Canyon provides 9% of California's electricity[1]. It astounds me that a single generating station like that can provide a whopping 9% of California's electricity. Assuming the same capacity, four more stations would take it to 45%. That's nearly half of your electricity for a state as large as California from a stable, reliable, an…
Diablo Canyon was supposed to be far larger then it ended up being. Would have been amazing. > I know nuclear isn't perfect and building new reactors is a huge challenge but it's a great stopgap solution for the next 100-odd years until a sufficient amount of solar & wind can be deployed to replace the reactors. I don't understand that? If you have functioning nuclear, why would you ever go to wind and solar. Do you…
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-energy-nuclearpower-idUSK...
Edit: Hell, US alone could do and get over peak demand in the evenings by having panel array spread all over the country.
Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online
#27TIL There is a nuclear power plant named Diablo Canyon. I thought it was a reference to some game in the Diablo franchise and I was wondering why politicians would vote to keep a multiplayer video game's servers online.
It's old enough to even be a Simpsons reference https://comb.io/H7qsWh (for some reason there's no English version on youtube)
Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Diablo Canyon was supposed to be far larger then it ended up being. Would have been amazing. > I know nuclear isn't perfect and building new reactors is a huge challenge but it's a great stopgap solution for the next 100-odd years until a sufficient amount of solar & wind can be deployed to replace the reactors. I don't understand that? If you have functioning nuclear, why would you ever go to wind and solar. Do you…
> I don't understand that? If you have functioning nuclear, why would you ever go to wind and solar. A few reasons: The amount of fissile materials on Earth isn't infinite. As far as I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong... this is not my professional background), there are only ~230 years of uranium available.[1] And that's at today's consumption rates; build the amount of reactors we need and it's even less.…
The idea of natural resources running out is always pushed about everything and is always wrong.
However, in this case its wrong on an even more fundamental level. There is a gigantic amount of fertile (i.e. you need to hit it with one neutron to make it fissile) nuclear material around. Literally enough for 1000s of years. And volcanic activity is bringing up new such material from deeper in the earth.
Any non insane nuclear strategy will eventually switch to breeder reactors and if you do, the amount of fissile material is essentially infinite.
We already have gigantic amounts of fissile material in the form of spent fuel that we can use to start breeder reactors.
This video goes threw how you can do this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkZ0ZBAVDu4
> other fissile material to use (thorium?)
There is both a huge amount of fertile material, both in the form of thorium (T-232) and what is usually called natural uranium (U-238).
The things consider limited is Uranium-235 if I'm not mistaken. This is the only surviving naturally fissile material. But should it get down to it, I'm sure we could extend the amount of known reserves, just as we did for almost everything else.
There is a pretty interesting story here about 3 different strains of nuclear that exists and of these the naturally fissile material of 2 of them is 'extinct'. Only U-235 is still sticking around. If not for that, it would have been much harder to start nuclear age.
In the beginning there was a lot of effort put into breeder reactors because the amount of known U-235 was considered really small. So breeders had to be developed however as usually happens more U-235 was discovered once people started looking. And this sadly lead to way less emphasis being put on breeders.
> there's still the constant need of water for cooling
This is wrong. Almost any GenIV reactor is perfectly fine with being air cooled. In fact most reactors are perfectly fine in the icy tundra and the hottest desert on the planet.
Consider that for a reactor that runs on 600C even a desert feels like being in an ice bath.
As with everything nuclear, the real problem is that we stopped progressing in the early 1970s and are still using blown up submarine reactors.
The real problem is not nuclear, but technology stagnation because of societal issues.
> nuclear proliferation
An over estimate problem. Depending on the design you can make it practically impossible to do anything. And if you can do anything it would be about 100x more effort then just developing the bomb the same way everybody else has.
There are absolutely nuclear designs that you can deploy in most places in the world.
> the small risk of malfunctions
While true, the same can be said for wind and solar. Even current nuclear doesn't kill people.
Future GenIV reactors potential for harm is very local. You could potentially imagine some accident that kills some people inside of the power plant.
But unless you combine the story of 3 evil bond villains its hard to see how with such reactors you could seriously harm people outside of the plant boundary.
So I would say in terms of risk, building 1000s of large towers to harness the wind, this is much less dangerous.
> or maybe deploy fusion if we ever finally crack that egg
Practically it makes no sense and will not be cheaper then fission for a whole host of reasons.
Also, it still has proliferation concerns and still has the potential of accidents that could leak radiation.
Fusion might make sense for a few space application, but practically for earth is mostly irrelevant.
Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't understand that? If you have functioning nuclear, why would you ever go to wind and solar. A few reasons: The amount of fissile materials on Earth isn't infinite. As far as I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong... this is not my professional background), there are only ~230 years of uranium available.[1] And that's at today's consumption rates; build the amount of reactors we need and it's even less.…
> A few reasons: The amount of fissile materials on Earth isn't infinite. As far as I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong... this is not my professional background), there are only ~230 years of uranium available. The idea of natural resources running out is always pushed about everything and is always wrong. However, in this case its wrong on an even more fundamental level. There is a gigantic amount of ferti…
The real problem is not nuclear, but technology stagnation because of societal issues.
About this, I wonder if the number of new works mean that we are getting over the bump of stagnation. Do you think enough is getting done on that end? Also, I wonder what type of work can have the most impact on this side. My Government (Quebec, Canada) closed our last nuclear reactor years ago, but there's still some knowledge base around smaller reactors in Universities.
There's also plan to expand investment into private-held reactor development (https://www.cnl.ca/clean-energy/canadian-nuclear-research-in...). Is this an avenue, considering the legislative/regulation overhead, that will ever be sustainable or it should be spearheaded by governments like it was in the 50s?
Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Diablo Canyon was supposed to be far larger then it ended up being. Would have been amazing. > I know nuclear isn't perfect and building new reactors is a huge challenge but it's a great stopgap solution for the next 100-odd years until a sufficient amount of solar & wind can be deployed to replace the reactors. I don't understand that? If you have functioning nuclear, why would you ever go to wind and solar. Do you…
I don't know where the idea of nuclear being cheap comes from. Yes, the fuel is miniscule and relatively cheap, but all it does is get far hotter than any type of coal or gas boiler would. You still need a heat engine on the higher tech end of material science to turn that heat into usable energy. And that's not even taking into account the oversized cooling system to cover the difference between the dynamic grid loa…
The turbine you use to turn heat into power can be the same as the one uses for commercial gas. Nuclear is not actually hotter. Current PWR are actually cooler then Gas/Coal plant (and that's part of why they are so expensive).
Most high temperature nuclear reactors will run at comparable temperatures to gas plants, around 600C. I don't know much about gas plants so correct me if they run at lower temps.
> higher tech end of material science
High temperature doesn't necessary use high tech. Depending on the design, the main containment vessel can be pretty ordinary stainless steal.
And the same can be said for airplanes, cars or rockets. They use high tech, but if you do it correctly and you build more then 1, it can still be cheap for the end user.
> And that's not even taking into account the oversized cooling system
High temperature reactors don't need huge cooling systems. The huge size of PWR is mostly related to its absurdly large steam cooling systems, but all of that wouldn't exist in a modern reactor.
> reactor who's throttle response time is measured in days.
Again, you are drawing conclusions from current reactor designs that were fundamentally designed in the 1960s to power submarines.
Modern reactor designs can have very good load following capability. Specially if you make that a goal of the reactor design.
A good reactor design is fundamentally load following, if you pull more energy it will produce more.
> It's just not a miracle electricity device.
I would sort-of disagree. I would suggest that most miracles (walking on water) are not as amazing as the discovery of a material that has many orders of magnitude higher energy density and the a device that has the ability to harness that.
Of course its not a divine miracle but given a world that is powered by coal, finding uranium/thorium is basically a miracle.
A nuclear reactor like we could build it if we do 5-10 more design iteration would be one of the closes things to a miracle device that we use.
> Personally I'm looking forward to the point people realize you don't totally need the whole "electric generator" aspect of nuclear and start direct connecting it to things that need heat, like desalination
Yes, very much so. If you look at the live of Alvin Weinberg one of pioneers of the nuclear age and the inventor of both the PWR and the Molten Salt reactor. His vision was far beyond just power generation.
He had a whole vision of society driven by nuclear plants, nuclear desalination was on of them. I not sure if he talked about synthetic fuel or not.
You could even imagine having a nuclear reactor per city super-block and then using solar salt to circulate the heating rather then using electrical heaters.
But to get to these applications we need to build on the currently existing market.