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California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online

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Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online

#11
post #6

Now if only we could get more reactors built. According to the New York Times, Diablo Canyon provides 9% of California's electricity[1]. It astounds me that a single generating station like that can provide a whopping 9% of California's electricity. Assuming the same capacity, four more stations would take it to 45%. That's nearly half of your electricity for a state as large as California from a stable, reliable, an…

Diablo Canyon was supposed to be far larger then it ended up being. Would have been amazing.

> I know nuclear isn't perfect and building new reactors is a huge challenge but it's a great stopgap solution for the next 100-odd years until a sufficient amount of solar & wind can be deployed to replace the reactors.

I don't understand that? If you have functioning nuclear, why would you ever go to wind and solar.

Do you just want your power supply to be less reliable and have a massive dependency of storage?

If you have nuclear, why would you ever go of it? There is no reason what so ever to do so.

Even fusion will not replace fission. Nuclear fission is the cheapest possible energy by in a first principles analysis (except maybe some Aneutronic fusion maybe but we can't really even analyise what that would be).

Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online

#12
post #8

Good news. Although I am wary of nuclear's sustainability due to usage of fresh water (another limited resource in our climate crisis days)... I mean look at France nuclear + dry rivers... I think Nuclear should be part of our basket of energy sources (as it's baseload) to combat climate change.

Most advanced nuclear would have been air cooled but after 50 years of nuclear stagnation we are sadly still haven't managed to get there.

The solution is to finally evolve the technology.

Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online

#14
post #6

Now if only we could get more reactors built. According to the New York Times, Diablo Canyon provides 9% of California's electricity[1]. It astounds me that a single generating station like that can provide a whopping 9% of California's electricity. Assuming the same capacity, four more stations would take it to 45%. That's nearly half of your electricity for a state as large as California from a stable, reliable, an…

Diablo Canyon was supposed to be far larger then it ended up being. Would have been amazing. > I know nuclear isn't perfect and building new reactors is a huge challenge but it's a great stopgap solution for the next 100-odd years until a sufficient amount of solar & wind can be deployed to replace the reactors. I don't understand that? If you have functioning nuclear, why would you ever go to wind and solar. Do you…

Doesn’t that depend on how cheap fusion may eventually get though?

Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online

#15
post #8

Good news. Although I am wary of nuclear's sustainability due to usage of fresh water (another limited resource in our climate crisis days)... I mean look at France nuclear + dry rivers... I think Nuclear should be part of our basket of energy sources (as it's baseload) to combat climate change.

> I am wary of nuclear's sustainability due to usage of fresh water

I feel like there should be ways to engineer around this especially for reactors near the coast. Use some of the power from the plant to desalinate sea water or engineer to use sea water?

Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online

#16
post #9

Diablo Canyon is in an absolutely beautiful part of the central coast of California. Definitely visit the greater San Luis Obispo area. Californians want it all (green and plentiful), but lack the basics to make that happen (coalfire supplemented with wind and solar plus overloaded grids -- see what happens this weekend with FlexAlerts already called). Nuclear should be considered. I don't know how to make them perfe…

Coal kills more people every year than nuclear ever has.

Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online

#17
post #6

Now if only we could get more reactors built. According to the New York Times, Diablo Canyon provides 9% of California's electricity[1]. It astounds me that a single generating station like that can provide a whopping 9% of California's electricity. Assuming the same capacity, four more stations would take it to 45%. That's nearly half of your electricity for a state as large as California from a stable, reliable, an…

Diablo Canyon was supposed to be far larger then it ended up being. Would have been amazing. > I know nuclear isn't perfect and building new reactors is a huge challenge but it's a great stopgap solution for the next 100-odd years until a sufficient amount of solar & wind can be deployed to replace the reactors. I don't understand that? If you have functioning nuclear, why would you ever go to wind and solar. Do you…

> I don't understand that? If you have functioning nuclear, why would you ever go to wind and solar.

A few reasons: The amount of fissile materials on Earth isn't infinite. As far as I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong... this is not my professional background), there are only ~230 years of uranium available.[1] And that's at today's consumption rates; build the amount of reactors we need and it's even less. Maybe we'd find more or maybe there's some other fissile material to use (thorium?). I'm not knowledgeable enough about the specifics to be honest, but it is finite on some timeline. Whereas wind and solar will last as long as the sun lasts.

Aside from that, there's always the small risk of malfunctions and nuclear proliferation. Even with newer tech that could greatly limit the possibility of accidents to near zero (it's already absurdly low) there's still the constant need of water for cooling and geopolitical issues causing problems like what is happening right now with the Zaporizhzhia plant in Ukraine.

That's why I say it's not perfect but that it does serve an incredibly important purpose in the near term to dramatically lower CO2 emissions and buy time to either deploy more wind & solar, extend the life of nuclear, or maybe deploy fusion if we ever finally crack that egg. Exactly how that looks would likely be a question for our children to answer.

[1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-long-will-glo...

Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online

#19
post #9

Diablo Canyon is in an absolutely beautiful part of the central coast of California. Definitely visit the greater San Luis Obispo area. Californians want it all (green and plentiful), but lack the basics to make that happen (coalfire supplemented with wind and solar plus overloaded grids -- see what happens this weekend with FlexAlerts already called). Nuclear should be considered. I don't know how to make them perfe…

> I don't know how to make them perfectly safe and their have been incidents where unfortunate accidents occur

The issue I have with this argument is that if we don't dramatically reduce CO2 emissions far, far more people are going to die from climate change than nuclear might kill.

Plus, as another commenter already mentioned, the amount of deaths coal is responsible for is 470x higher than nuclear from air pollution alone. We accept these deaths for coal but somehow have a problem with a much smaller number of deaths from nuclear in the theoretical case of a massive incident. I'm not saying there's an acceptable number of deaths to just live with but pragmatically speaking I'll gladly take the proven option that kills orders of magnitudes fewer people than the status quo is already doing.

> Compared with nuclear power, coal is responsible for five times as many worker deaths from accidents, 470 times as many deaths due to air pollution among members of the public, and more than 1,000 times as many cases of serious illness, according to a study of the health effects of electricity generation in Europe.

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/nuclear-power-is-saf...

Re: California lawmakers vote to keep Diablo Canyon online

#20
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diablo Canyon was supposed to be far larger then it ended up being. Would have been amazing. > I know nuclear isn't perfect and building new reactors is a huge challenge but it's a great stopgap solution for the next 100-odd years until a sufficient amount of solar & wind can be deployed to replace the reactors. I don't understand that? If you have functioning nuclear, why would you ever go to wind and solar. Do you…

> I don't understand that? If you have functioning nuclear, why would you ever go to wind and solar. A few reasons: The amount of fissile materials on Earth isn't infinite. As far as I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong... this is not my professional background), there are only ~230 years of uranium available.[1] And that's at today's consumption rates; build the amount of reactors we need and it's even less.…

Today's nuclear reactors only extract about 2% of the energy in natural uranium, fast reactors could extract many times more by producing Pu239 and other fissile actinides from relatively abundant U238.

Since uranium is water soluble there are large amounts in the ocean and if fast reactors were made economical it would be practical to extract from seawater, seawater uranium is a renewable resource because uranium is always eroding from rocks and making its way to the ocean by rivers.

Thorium breeders do the same thing as plutonium breeders by converting Th232 to U233 except they can do it with a thermal spectrum. It's not so clear if terrestrial Th or U is really more abundant but Th is not in seawater because, like Pu it is not water soluble.

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