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Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#131

Post by henryfjordan »

missedthecue wrote: post #114
henryfjordan wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Productivity has risen 61% since 1979: https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ . 40 hour work weeks have been the standard. Wages only rose 17% in that same period. The capitalists have been able to bank the other 44%. A 3-day work week (aka 40% less productivity if you assume a perfectly linear relationship between time working and productivity) would still mean a nice little gain for the capitalist compared to 19…

Are workers getting more productive, or are tools and technology getting more productive? It used to take a room full of highly trained engineers using slide-rules, protractors, and graphing paper to design the newest car or plane. Now it's done in AutoCAD. But it's not obvious to me why the employee should collect the difference for the capital investment poured into technology. In other words, it's not as if humans…

I agree that it isn't obvious who should reap the benefits of productivity gains, but that means it is also not obvious to me that the capitalist should get it compared to the employee.

We created a system that heavily favors the capitalist starting with the Industrial Revolution. Prior to that most of society was subsistence farming. Encouraging capital investment in new machines and factories through laws/policies made sense to help raise society (and thus the workers) out of that situation. We have made enough progress since then that there are now barely any subsistence farmers in the US.

Why should we continue to embrace policies favoring the capitalist? Why should we continue to award 100% of the gains of new technologies to capitalists? Maybe they should only get those gains for a few years, or they should get half and half should go to the workers?

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#132

Post by topkai22 »

throwayyy479087 wrote: post #102
henryfjordan wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Productivity has risen 61% since 1979: https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ . 40 hour work weeks have been the standard. Wages only rose 17% in that same period. The capitalists have been able to bank the other 44%. A 3-day work week (aka 40% less productivity if you assume a perfectly linear relationship between time working and productivity) would still mean a nice little gain for the capitalist compared to 19…

The difference between producitivity and wage gap is fully explained by increasing healthcare costs: https://www.ajmc.com/view/healthcare-costs-increased-twice-a...

The difference between productivity and wages is not fully explained by increasing benefits/health care costs, but it is something like over half the difference.

Benefits costs do a better job explaining increasing wage inequality, but again not all of it and doesn’t address what’s happening outside the US

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#133

Post by wahnfrieden »

nemo44x wrote: post #112
_flat20 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Choosing life over work isn't slacking.

If your compensation agreement is based on x-hours of work and you deliberately put in less to “choose life” then you are slacking. You agreed to exchange a fixed amount of time for a fixed amount of money and are not delivering on your promise because you are slacking. I wouldn’t call it theft, but it’s definitely slacking.

contract standards at some point in history don't dictate ethics just as laws don't either. it's not as obvious and rule-based as you suggest.

it's also peculiar in my opinion to point out worker laziness without apparent recognition of the worker-employer power dynamic where wage theft vastly outweighs so called time theft dollar to dollar

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#135

Post by it_citizen »

sudden_dystopia wrote: post #38

They aren’t just going to give you a free day off. There would be a commensurate decrease in your pay. I don’t find the 5 days/week to be “irrational”, “irrational” to whom? It’s completely rational from an employers perspective that they have a job to fulfill and it requires employees to complete the job. If they have people working 4 days /week, they need coverage for the other days. It’s not rational for the custo…

One thing I didn't realize until recently is that working 4 days instead of 5 does not slash your salary by a fifth given that your tax bracket will also be lower.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#137

Post by bowsamic »

ahoy wrote: post #101
dsugarman wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The way the post is worded right now seems to be phrased in a way that 3-day weekends are blindingly obvious Seems like all anti-work propaganda (ie: r/antiwork) to me, there's no meat. You could turn this post into an inductive proof saying it is so obvious that having X-1 days is better than X days of work until you get smacked in the face trying to hand wave that 1->0 will have no impact on productivity.

The worker is alienated from (most of) the product of their labor. Until that changes, "productivity" doesn't benefit them, only their employers. Why should we want more of that?

I agree. The capitalist is anti-worker

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#138

Post by dfxm12 »

sudden_dystopia wrote: post #38

They aren’t just going to give you a free day off. There would be a commensurate decrease in your pay. I don’t find the 5 days/week to be “irrational”, “irrational” to whom? It’s completely rational from an employers perspective that they have a job to fulfill and it requires employees to complete the job. If they have people working 4 days /week, they need coverage for the other days. It’s not rational for the custo…

They aren’t just going to give you a free day off. There would be a commensurate decrease in your pay.

This is the realist view, and it shows the power imbalance between employee and employer. It's easy for those with the power in this relationship to say "if you want to reduce work, expect reduced pay". However, worker productivity has risen for decades and compensation/hours worked haven't budged anywhere close to match. Employers will always say "meet me in the middle" while taking a step backwards.

Employers in the US can get away with it because workers are replaceable. The government has their back. Most of the (paltry) welfare benefits from the government have work requirements, so you have to take jobs with bad pay (and you'll be fired if you complain). Individual workers have no power in this relationship. Even recent fed policy is put in place to promote unemployment because workers were gaining just a little ground.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#139

Post by WalterBright »

henryfjordan wrote: post #97
overlordalex wrote: post #13

To maybe throw the question back - what have you done to make 3 day weekends a reality? The way the post is worded right now seems to be phrased in a way that 3-day weekends are blindingly obvious, but if you look at the history of labour rights I dont see why anyone expects it to just happen without a massive amount of organising

Productivity has risen 61% since 1979: https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ . 40 hour work weeks have been the standard. Wages only rose 17% in that same period. The capitalists have been able to bank the other 44%. A 3-day work week (aka 40% less productivity if you assume a perfectly linear relationship between time working and productivity) would still mean a nice little gain for the capitalist compared to 19…

> The capitalists have been able to bank the other 44%.

Don't forget the massive growth at all levels of government.

Also don't forget that wages are not the right measure - total compensation is. Total compensation is often 150% of wages (things like health insurance, retirement plans, 401k matching contributions, etc.). All those "employer-paid" benefits are actually coming out of your paycheck.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#140

Post by missedthecue »

jen20 wrote: post #130
missedthecue wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are workers getting more productive, or are tools and technology getting more productive? It used to take a room full of highly trained engineers using slide-rules, protractors, and graphing paper to design the newest car or plane. Now it's done in AutoCAD. But it's not obvious to me why the employee should collect the difference for the capital investment poured into technology. In other words, it's not as if humans…

Modern managerial techniques if anything have regressed the situation. As for tech and tools, who do you think made those things if not humans?

The human inventors of computers, computer components, productivity improving software (like AutoCAD), robotics, and other systems are very wealthy.
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