Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#101

Post by ahoy » Thu, Sep 01, 2022, 7:22 PM UTC

dsugarman wrote: post #89

overlordalex wrote: post #13

To maybe throw the question back - what have you done to make 3 day weekends a reality? The way the post is worded right now seems to be phrased in a way that 3-day weekends are blindingly obvious, but if you look at the history of labour rights I dont see why anyone expects it to just happen without a massive amount of organising

>The way the post is worded right now seems to be phrased in a way that 3-day weekends are blindingly obvious Seems like all anti-work propaganda (ie: r/antiwork) to me, there's no meat. You could turn this post into an inductive proof saying it is so obvious that having X-1 days is better than X days of work until you get smacked in the face trying to hand wave that 1->0 will have no impact on productivity.

The worker is alienated from (most of) the product of their labor. Until that changes, "productivity" doesn't benefit them, only their employers. Why should we want more of that?

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#102

Post by throwayyy479087 » Thu, Sep 01, 2022, 7:22 PM UTC

henryfjordan wrote: post #97

overlordalex wrote: post #13

To maybe throw the question back - what have you done to make 3 day weekends a reality? The way the post is worded right now seems to be phrased in a way that 3-day weekends are blindingly obvious, but if you look at the history of labour rights I dont see why anyone expects it to just happen without a massive amount of organising

Productivity has risen 61% since 1979: https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ . 40 hour work weeks have been the standard. Wages only rose 17% in that same period. The capitalists have been able to bank the other 44%. A 3-day work week (aka 40% less productivity if you assume a perfectly linear relationship between time working and productivity) would still mean a nice little gain for the capitalist compared to 19…

The difference between producitivity and wage gap is fully explained by increasing healthcare costs: https://www.ajmc.com/view/healthcare-costs-increased-twice-a...

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#103

Post by deathanatos » Thu, Sep 01, 2022, 7:23 PM UTC

> For those who say it would lead to a decrease in productivity. Well that is only relative to the 5 day week.

I mean, yeah? That's not a logical argument against it; compared to a 5 day week, a naïve view of it is that that's a 20% productivity loss¹.

> It is not some law ingrained in the universe.

It's not … but I'd also like the work, as I need to make ends meet. What I would prefer is raise … which is why I'm not at all clear why people are so hot on this shorter workweek.

Implicit, I think, in your post, is the assumption that an employer isn't going to go "yes, you can work 80% of the standard week for 80% of the standard week's pay". And why would I take that deal?

¹(yes, I know there are other, better arguments for a 4d week.)

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#104

Post by zacharycohn » Thu, Sep 01, 2022, 7:24 PM UTC

t0mas88 wrote: post #96

swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they will just make everyone part time. The implicit threat here is withdrawal of benefits - specifically health care insurance

Huh what? You don't get health insurance when you work part time in the US?

There are a few companies that buck the trend, but typically, no. You have to be full time (frequently defined as 32 hours a week or more) to qualify for company-subsidized health insurance.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#105

Post by draw_down » Thu, Sep 01, 2022, 7:24 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #11

In some places in Europe, after some period of employment, you can demand of your employer to let you work 80% of hours for 80% of pay. I have team members in Europe on this schedule and it works out well for everyone. Based on that experience, I'd also be open to such an arrangement for employees based in geographies where that's not legally required, but is legally and practically permitted. My guess is that most p…

No post body was provided.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#106

Post by mmastrac » Thu, Sep 01, 2022, 7:25 PM UTC

My last job was 60% time. I only committed three days a week to it. The roles are there - you just need to ask for them.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#107

Post by lm28469 » Thu, Sep 01, 2022, 7:25 PM UTC

codegeek wrote: post #15

"And we know many people who work barely a fraction of the week, yet need to maintain this kind of presenteeism." I don't disagree with you necessarily but the people who game it now, will game it with 4 day week as well. Slackers are always going to slack. 5 day or 4 day.

One thing is clear, if we continue equalling people who want to work less than full time with slackers we'll never get anywhere...

What should be allowed is to work as much as you want and get the pro rata of the full time salary

I'll let people waste their lives in the office and enjoy the world, if I could get the monthly equivalent of a min wage in my country while working one day a week I'd do it, call me a slacker if you want

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#108

Post by AlchemistCamp » Thu, Sep 01, 2022, 7:26 PM UTC

The entire idea of week days is arbitrary.

Days are rotations of Earth around its axis, years are orbits of Earth around the Sun and months almost match lunar cycle. Weeks of seven days are just something somebody came up with a long time ago.

Ancient Egyptians, ancient Chinese and pre-Napoleon French revolutionaries used ten day weeks.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#109

Post by dfxm12 » Thu, Sep 01, 2022, 7:26 PM UTC

dsugarman wrote: post #89

overlordalex wrote: post #13

To maybe throw the question back - what have you done to make 3 day weekends a reality? The way the post is worded right now seems to be phrased in a way that 3-day weekends are blindingly obvious, but if you look at the history of labour rights I dont see why anyone expects it to just happen without a massive amount of organising

>The way the post is worded right now seems to be phrased in a way that 3-day weekends are blindingly obvious Seems like all anti-work propaganda (ie: r/antiwork) to me, there's no meat. You could turn this post into an inductive proof saying it is so obvious that having X-1 days is better than X days of work until you get smacked in the face trying to hand wave that 1->0 will have no impact on productivity.

there's no meat

This ignores that there have been trials about this. Companies trying 4 day work weeks have found their workers to be more productive.

Also, consider that worker productivity has gone up since the 70s, but wages haven't kept pace.

In surveys, most people say they'd rather have 4 day work week. 5 days is in second place. then it goes down from 3.

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776163853/microsoft-japan-say...

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#110

Post by ghaff » Thu, Sep 01, 2022, 7:26 PM UTC

pwinnski wrote: post #41

overlordalex wrote: post #13

To maybe throw the question back - what have you done to make 3 day weekends a reality? The way the post is worded right now seems to be phrased in a way that 3-day weekends are blindingly obvious, but if you look at the history of labour rights I dont see why anyone expects it to just happen without a massive amount of organising

Most advances in labor rights came about as a result of hard work: blood, sweat, and tears. Not, it turns out, this particular one! The five-day work-week came about because Henry Ford declared it to be so in 1926, and wasn't made any sort of law until 1939. Ultimately, the decision to move to four-day work weeks can only be made by CEOs or equivalents, and while some have, most haven't. At my previous company, the h…

And that CEO is not necessarily wrong. Even if you posit that certain types of creative problem solving might be as productive with a 32 hour work week as a 40 hour one, I'd also posit that there are a lot of jobs within companies that really do mostly map to hours in seats. And granting, say, engineering only a special privilege like that seems like it would be terrible for morale--especially given that there are doubtless other jobs at a company that could in principle also be equally productive with 4-day weeks.

And it probably goes without saying that most people would not be OK with a pay cut--which might have to actually be more than 20% given the cost of benefits is fairly fixed.