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Backsliding on free expression around the world needs to end

thenewhumanitarian.org

201–210 of 299 posts

Re: Backsliding on free expression around the world needs to end

#201

This is not talking about bogus "my freedoms" claims of people being kicked off Twitter, it's talking about actual loss of freedom of expression, where the government imprisons people for saying the wrong things. In the US we have loss sight of what real freedom of expression means.

Getting kicked off social media is essentially having your ability to engage in public discourse removed, or at least severely restricted.

There are still city / township board meetings. You have the ability to converse with your neighbors. You can write to / contact your local representatives.

If you feel that being kicked off social media is the same as the removal of your ability to engage in public discourse can you tell me what people did BEFORE social media?

Re: Backsliding on free expression around the world needs to end

#202

I wonder why Mexico was omitted from both the article and map? Hasn't deaths/disappearances of journalists been running rampant there?

> ARTICLE 19 Mexico has its own methodology for tracking the freedom of expression situation in the country – they are not included in GxR rankings or any country-level analyses using the metric.

Which I think means basically "for historical reasons they are special". Shame though, cross country comparisons are interesting even if they are hard to do properly

Re: Backsliding on free expression around the world needs to end

#204

the article is an example of orientalism, presenting the case as if there is no urgency on the matter in the Western world. Cancel culture, de-platforming, algorithmic dampening, account mislabelling, brigading on-platform, account suspension and deletion - all of these things are happening in the Western world, on US platforms. I used to have sympathy with the the argument that 'private company's can do what they li…

I find interesting the selective examples being used for the supposed raising threat to freedom in (and from) the US. At the same time the US has had one of the highest incarceration rates in the world (largely affecting one minority), has been extrajudically assassinating people all over the world, started wars and supported dictatorships when it suited economical interests for a long time and created the biggest worldwide surveillance net which has literally landed innocents in black torture cells.

But somehow not being able to say that one thinks people of a different skin color are genetically inferior on someone else's platform is the threat to freedom. I wonder what a uighur working as a defacto slave would think about that, or one of the Guantanamo prisoners who have been detained without trial for close to 20 years.

Re: Backsliding on free expression around the world needs to end

#205
post #37

I'm immediately suspicious when I see this map of the world with countries shaded by how "free" they are. What are the units of freedom? What's the color scale? How is freedom measured and who is measuring it? Why does it even make sense to express freedom as a number?

It's just a new index created out of V-Dem data dude, no need to go full Spy vs Spy paranoid. Being an index it naturally doesn't have units, you'll have to give meaning to the scale yourself.

Here is a bit of quote from the methodology section if you are curios: """ In producing the Global Expression Report, ARTICLE 19 selected the 25 indicators described below which best matched with our broad and holistic view of freedom of expression. These indicators were included in a Bayesian measurement model for countries with available data from 2000 to 2021 to create our metric: the GxR.

V-Dem draws on theoretical and methodological expertise from its worldwide team to produce data in the most objective and reliable way possible. Approximately half of the indicators in the V-Dem data set are based on factual information obtainable from official documents such as constitutions and government records. The remainder consists of more subjective assessments on topics like democratic and governing practices and compliance with de jure rules. On such issues, typically five experts provide ratings for the country, thematic area, and time period for which they have expertise. """

More starting at page 52, but there's really no big mystery here, it's just quantitative sociology.

Re: Backsliding on free expression around the world needs to end

#206

Have you especially found that the latest era of increasing freedom of expression has led to better outcomes for countries? I have not come to that conclusion.

How did you managed to draw such a firm conclusions out of the morass of confounding effects that is the reality of the social sciences on a global scale?

Please share your methodology!

Re: Backsliding on free expression around the world needs to end

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cancel culture is not the result of free speech, it's the result of a toxic social environment. Here are some actionable solutions that don't require limiting free speech: 1. Improve labor laws so craven employers can't just dump their employee because they said something online (unrelated to the company on their personal time) and people are complaining. 2. Regulate social media algorithms to prevent the feedback lo…

Should employers be required to retain employees who say things that damage their business? Are algorithms free speech? Who gets to determine which algorithms I'm allowed to implement to promote or demote comments on my private media platform? How do you propose altering media incentives without restricting people's freedom of expression? Passing laws?

To your first question, an emphatic yes. That's the point of labour laws, employers rarely fire people for fun, they do it for economic reasons.

I expected your second and third questions, and I agree with the premise to some extent. If algorithms promote or demote some speech they affect free speech. If you accept that, free speech does not exist online and never can by definition. It's a spectrum however and it's hard to reason about because recommendation algorithms are complicated, have many parameters and are a black box to consumers.

If a company promotes posts that benefit it financially, that's very far from free speech, if a company promotes posts based on a random generator it's very close to free speech but probably useless to users.

I don't have a bite-sized answer to what must be done, it's a project that must be started and tested in the real world. I'd certainly prefer the government to be in charge of what gets implemented, it's a matter of public good that should not be left to private corporations. My naive, off-the-top of my head idea would be a range of public, open source algorithms cautioned by the government that prevent companies from exploiting their users. There are other softer ideas depending on your beliefs wrt the government, for example you could let all companies use any algorithms but force them to publish them.

To me social media is equivalent to tobacco, sugar and gambling, it's highly toxic, exploits our baser instincts, and cannot be solved by an individualist perspective but social media is a fairly recent phenomenon so I think it'll take a few decades before we grasp the full severity of the problem.

W.r.t the press, I think the problem is apparent but I'm hesitant to answer because I'm not knowledgeable enough about the domain. Often technological solutions get discussed here, like micropayments & cie, which don't seem to be doing well. I think there is something to be said for more diversity in the industry so it's more representative of the people they're supposed to inform, but positive discrimination is a tricky subject. There are also lot of former government employees working for big media companies so we're not starting from a blank state wrt the influence of the government, passing laws could rebalance things but I honestly don't know what form they'd take. I know addressing perverse incentives doesn't have to lead to a curtailing of free speech.

Re: Backsliding on free expression around the world needs to end

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I just clarify, are you talking about when states do this or when society does this ? The article is (from my reading) quite clearly talking about states that are closing down freedom of expression, not society as a whole. Like, I can say, “The American President is a disaster for the country, all his ideas a trash, he smells funny and should be voted out as soon as possible” and I don’t have to fear the the Amer…

I'm saying intolerance in broader society is an incredible weakness that encourages and gives power to intolerance in the state. People are begging for authoritarian solutions to what they view as moral problems in society. If they can't convince people to do "what's right" they want the state to do it by force. It then becomes easy for authoritarians to take power because it's literally what the people are asking fo…

> I'm saying intolerance in broader society is an incredible weakness that encourages and gives power to intolerance in the state.

What is your evidence for this statement? Could you provide an example?

> Corporations are taking the place of the state.

Yes. The state’s role is certainly smaller than it was in many western countries (e.g. in the UK) but I don’t know what that has to do with free speech.

Yes, it does matter. If I am an asshole who stirs shit up at a company, I probably won’t find work. If I am an asshole (not breaking the law) the state can’t deny me basic services it provides to its citizens just because I am an asshole.

Can I just ask though: what period would you consider the golden age of free speech? What is the peak from which we are descending?

Re: Backsliding on free expression around the world needs to end

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what is your point? Let them face consequences. That is not a justification for suppressing such speech.

What a lot of people call "cancel culture" is exactly that, though. For example, when a comedian says something that insults a class of people who are customers of the comedian's sponsor and the sponsor projects lost revenue from that class of people, they stop funding that comedian's work. That's both "cancel culture" and the consequences of free speech.

To clarify, I'm referring to entities that tout themselves to be a platform for providing customers to express their opinions. For your example, I think a better analogy would be a venue owner that publicly advertises their space to be rented out for events and/or performances. In such case, the owner should have no right to refuse the comedian from hosting a show even if they find them objectionable.

Re: Backsliding on free expression around the world needs to end

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Independent" of who? Who gets to decide what is "independent" and therefore deserving of the human right to free speech, versus what is "not independent" and therefore subhuman and not deserving of rights?

Reality does. God am I sick of this "who will decide" nonsense. There is no reality where RT is anything but Russian state-sponsored propaganda.

"Reality" doesn't make decisions. Reality just is. Humans need to make the decisions.
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