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U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

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Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#271

Obesity. Covid literally attacks obese people. And obese people also are at huge risk. I'm overweight and I was literally frightened during covid. Now I lift weights every day and work on my diet very hard. But we are literally ignoring the elephant (literally) in the room.

Age is a multiple times larger risk factor for COVID risk than weight. So while weight is important, the real elephant in the room is an ageing population?

Very few people refuse to talk about aging, and it's not a problem we are equipped to solve or something unfamiliar to us as a species.

Plenty refuse to talk about rising obesity rates, and it's not only something we can address now but also a massive change (no pun intended) that has taken place in living memory.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "you are beautiful no matter how you look" social campaign probably doesn't help here. There are literally visual cues that you 're doing something in excess and your doctor tells you to lose weight but Instagram says it's ok to be obese. I wonder if there's a limit to it, is it still ok to be twice your normal weight overweight?

I live in Europe. For employment that demands physical stamina it makes sense that fat people would not be favoured at the extreme level of obesity. My healthcare provider differentiates between overweight and obese and you can't treat triage as discrimination. There's a whole lot of middle ground between staying in your home not eating cake and promoting yourself on Instagram. Date and dance as you see fit.

The kind of discrimination I am talking about is refusing to hire fat people for desk jobs (or not promoting them, or paying them less) because of stereotypes that they are lazy or lack self-discipline or simple distaste for the way they look. [1]

Categorizing a patient as overweight or obese is not discrimination. Dismissing their health concerns or providing lower-quality care because they are fat is. [2]

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4853419/

[2] https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/weight-bias-hea...

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#273
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nice that the suburb you lived in is enjoyable to walk in, but that's not what the word "walkable" means in the context of a neighborhood. Walkable means you can accomplish daily tasks by using walking as a mode of transportation, not just a form of leisure. To address your main point, many US suburbs are not safe to walk in. Many suburbs lack things like sidewalks, crosswalks, and traffic signals for pedestrian…

That's too bad. In the area around where I live I have yet to encounter a suburb that doesn't have sidewalks! I understand what you meant by "walkability". I also don't think it's fun or practical. I tend to visit a lot of different stores, not just one or two. But I only go out shopping once a week or two, not daily. That sounds exhausting. I also hate super dense living being packed in like sardines with everyone e…

> That's too bad. In the area around where I live I have yet to encounter a suburb that doesn't have sidewalks!

It’s often linked to ugly history: when we were shopping around here in the DC area, there were tons of suburban houses with no sidewalks and transit-hostile road design which were built right after the major civil rights wins, when the thinking was that most black people couldn’t afford cars.

> I understand what you meant by "walkability". I also don't think it's fun or practical.

My thinking is that it’s less about fun than barriers to activity and car-centricity. If exercise is something which requires traveling elsewhere or you have to do on will-power an awful lot of people won’t do it very much, especially over time (maybe they walk the exercise trail when they first move in but lose interest over time because there’s only one route and that gets monotonous, etc.). Having kids is eye-opening that way when you’re seeing where they can go safely and under their own power, not to mention parents realizing how long they’ll be playing chauffeur.

The car centric point I mentioned is related: cars are expensive ($11k/year on average in 2019) so when your household has purchased one per adult you typically end up treating them as your default mode of transportation, which over time degrades your body and conditions you to think of being outside of air conditioning as outliers, and cars are dangerous which further reduces your options. Kids are driven to parks 3 blocks away because their parents are worried they’ll get hit by a car; pedestrian routes are hot, noisy, and extra long; etc.

Obviously they’re useful too but I don’t think it’s coincidence that obesity has been going up as an increasingly large fraction of people live in environments designed to be used while sitting sedentary in a machine.

City living isn’t without its own problems but when you get 10k steps without even making an effort to exercise it helps.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has worked for me. I find the UK food labels on most products quite informative as a rule of thumb. I remember initially being very surprised at some food contains when I started paying attention and how very small things like Mars bars can have so many calories comparatively of course. I think there's something sinister about not wanting the consumer to know what your product contains.

This thread is full of people commenting along the lines of " I have been able to manage my weight successfully, so other people must be fat because they're lazy idiots." HN is full of people who will accept nuance and complexity in technical discussions. Why not in this area as well, where individual biology, cultural expectations, economic incentives, and environmental factors intersect with personal choice?

There's plenty of victim blaming on technical topics too.

Any negative impact of tech on people will have comments saying “well they should have just..."

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don’t have time to read the paper yet - what you are saying that the tricky bit is the concentration increase of the spike protein that is a consequence of the rapid translation of mRNA after administration of the vaccine. How hard is the data on this? I am triple vaxed, and I remember getting heart palpitations for a while. Then again, there were other problematic factor in my life at the time that I can not separ…

I cant find it at the moment (thanks censorship!), but I believe the worst short-term side effects are 12hrs - 7 days. At least that’s when the fatalities occur, then risk drops dramatically.

That said, in the paper I linked, that’s also when Pfizer stopped monitoring or at least didn’t share their data. We only have observational evidence from the cdc (ie no controlled clinical trial).

Random article says 12-48 hrs https://www.verywellhealth.com/when-to-expect-covid-19-vacci...

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere (and is relatively well known) when you see myocarditis in youngish people, that likely means long-term heart damage. We don’t have any of that data because Pfizer and moderna haven’t released that data. Further, they basically scrapped their trial by giving the control group the vaccine. So any new trial has to start over.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hear, hear. One of the greatest failings of our "modern" healthcare system is that there's no plan to address this crisis. Obesity is the gateway to what seems like an infinite amount of health complications - not to mention the additional burden on the health care system itself when they get sick. I fully acknowledge that it's a difficult subject, it upsets people, and it's uncomfortable. The greatest healthcare adv…

>One of the greatest failings of our "modern" healthcare system is that there's no plan to address this crisis. Obesity is the gateway to what seems like an infinite amount of health complications What are they supposed to do? Obesity is caused by American's terrible lifestyle. Healthcare systems can only do so much to compensate for a bad lifestyle. Stop drinking alcohol, and start walking everywhere instead of driv…

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Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than that: we are celebrating it Now I'm not saying we need to shame anyone, but saying "healthy at any size" is a terrible lie and in the long term helps no one.

"Healthy at any size" does not literally mean "obese people are as healthy as thin people." I recommend reading the book, the entire point of which is about shifting one's health efforts from an exclusive focus on weight to a more holistic view. I.e. even if you can't drop that last 20 pounds (and many people struggle to do so, especially as they age), you should still eat a healthy diet, exercise, limit alcohol inta…

The "healthy at any size" kick isn't talking about an extra 20 pounds. From the pictures I've seen it is at least an extra 100lbs. The problem is by removing the stigma of being obese, we are ushering in massive health issues and disease for this upcoming generation.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. There are also, though, other environmental factors that make it harder to maintain healthy weight in postindustrial countries than it was in the past, even if you eat no processed foods, cap your calories and work out regularly. Pharmaceutical and industrial waste in the water supply, Roundup in the grain supply, pesticides, hormones in the meat. Personally I'm swayed by the argument that these are at…

> unless you grow your own food and drink from your own well there was a post a few days ago about Australia: home-farmed eggs have 40x more lead than the industrial ones, because of unchecked pollution in non-agricultural areas...

I was under the impression that that "40x" argument" largely speaks to pollution in cities and suburbs. Curious how the rural/urban breakdown relates to that number.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low carb diet helped me with this. Calories in calories out, but if you have a lot of carbs you are going to get hungry when restricting the calories, whereas on a low carb diet I sometimes have to think hard as to whether I have had breakfast or not by 10am. Having woke up at 7am. "Oh I should probably eat something..." I think I have less than 50g of carbs a day, and probably 1500 calories but I don't track it too…

Quitting alcohol and going to OMAD (one meal a day) helped me lose 20 kilos in < 2 months. And I wasn’t even obese, that was straight from overweight to goal weight. Alcohol is an enormous contributor to weight for several different reasons. Plus, the weight you get as a drinker (the “hard” fat) is the worst kind of fat your body can have.

I have also done one meal a day previously, works wonders. For those interested, it's difficult for the first week but it gets much easier after that. Was able to lose 20 pounds last year without changing exercise.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you're focusing on the fact that a conditional statement can be logically true independent of whether its hypothesis itself has any merit. (e.g. the proposition "If the sun goes dark tomorrow, then within a few years most people on earth will almost certainly be dead" is sound, even if the sun probably doesn't go dark tomorrow) But like GP said, the conditional statements themselves presuppose that vaccines…

It’s the inversion of your propositional case, however. His claim is not that the vaccine has caused extra deaths (the sun goes dark) but rather that if the vaccine is unsafe in -some- or all causes then mortality would increase on average. (if more people get sunburned from a hotter sun, we will see more skin cancer) It follows, and my interpretation of the data is that the vaccines are causing some issues or not gi…

The commenter at the top of the tree was implying a degree of unsafety in their premise that was sufficient to overpower other possible statistical causes. In the current discussion, this is a very close equivalent to stating that the vaccine caused extra deaths. To keep to the metaphor, the statement that the sun is hotter is already a huge claim in need of evidence rather than a starting premise.

If we accept that as a premise, it becomes difficult to explain why for instance the Canadian life expectancy increased in 2021 as another commenter noted, despite being society that is similar in many ways but with a higher vaccination rate.

>Terribly boring, wouldn’t you agree? But often the boring data is the correct data, or in other words: averages tend to represent a trend better than outliers.

I agree with this advice, hence the need to look at countries outside of the US and to consider the US's traditional life expectancy woes compared to other developed or OECD countries.

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