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U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

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Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#251

Post by midoridensha »

chownie wrote: post #222
remarkEon wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it fascinating, from an social science perspective, that in other critical areas of society social shaming is encouraged, but when it comes to human fitness we will invent PhD theses worth of reasons for why that's not allowed. I 100% agree with you though, the physical structure of (most) US cities makes this difficult if you yourself don't prioritize it, or you can't afford to.

Fat shaming just doesnt work, the only provable outcomes are mental illness and weight gain. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4236245/ It's also a huge glaring actor/observer asymmetry issue, you think between the 50's and now human beings innately changed to be lazier, more prone to overconsumption? Why opt for blaming the individual multiplied by 70 million rather than looking at the conditions of their…

>you think between the 50's and now human beings innately changed to be lazier, more prone to overconsumption? Why opt for blaming the individual multiplied by 70 million rather than looking at the conditions of their shared environment?

Subdivisions basically didn't exist in the US in the 1950s; they were only just being invented then. People lived in smaller towns and cities and walked around a lot more. Even in the 80s, kids were walking around outside a lot, without adult supervision. Now that's basically illegal in most places, so kids stay in their suburban homes all day playing video games.

And, as usual, you can compare to other countries. In other places, there's less of a car culture, people walk around a lot more, and there aren't many obese people.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#252

Post by midoridensha »

godelski wrote: post #227
midoridensha wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One of the greatest failings of our "modern" healthcare system is that there's no plan to address this crisis. Obesity is the gateway to what seems like an infinite amount of health complications What are they supposed to do? Obesity is caused by American's terrible lifestyle. Healthcare systems can only do so much to compensate for a bad lifestyle. Stop drinking alcohol, and start walking everywhere instead of driv…

> and start walking everywhere instead of driving. This sounds nice until you actually look at most of America. Cities are designed around cars. I'm in a rather walkable city and the nearest grocery store is a mile away. That's not too bad, but other places I've lived it is 5+. Buses are bad (hour+ between pickups) or non-existent. It gets difficult to do all kinds of chores, visit the doctor or whatever. Even using…

>This sounds nice until you actually look at most of America. Cities are designed around cars.

Right, and that's the problem. These cities are a product of choices that Americans have made over many decades, and now they're paying the piper.

>If you want people to walk more for their commutes then you need to design cities for walking.

No, Americans need to choose this for themselves, but they don't and they won't. They don't move to places like this, they don't demand it of their elected officials, they instead just buy big SUVs and move into subdivisions. Americans have chosen this lifestyle, and now it's costing them dearly.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#253

Post by ZeroGravitas »

eric4smith wrote: post #3

Obesity. Covid literally attacks obese people. And obese people also are at huge risk. I'm overweight and I was literally frightened during covid. Now I lift weights every day and work on my diet very hard. But we are literally ignoring the elephant (literally) in the room.

Obesity is to health what nuclear is to the energy debate.

A political side that:

dislikes universal medicine

dislikes decent city planning

dislikes pollution controls

dislikes regulating food advertising

dislikes government health info

dislikes taxing externalities like sugar

dislikes regulating medicines

dislikes harm reduction strategies for addiction

dislikes wearing masks

I could continue...

really doesnt want to talk about those things that they are obviously and provably on the wrong side of. So they've convinced themselves that their political enemies are all saying "being clinically obese is politically correct" and therefore they can get really upset at them for the problem.

Problem is, this is mostly not true. Their political enemies want to stop bullying, and victim blaming and people having body image issues because they don't look like a airbrushed Barbie doll or GI Joe on steroids. Which is good.

Their take on that, presenting it as a threat to health, is just deflection, and while I'm sure they sucked in a few misinformed but well meaning people at first, it feels more and more desperate, more and more deliberate misdirection as time goes on.

We have the web. We have access to academic journals. If the average software dev chooses to be misinformed on these topics then they're no better than a flat earther.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#254

Post by lm28469 »

remarkEon wrote: post #22
eric4smith wrote: post #3

Obesity. Covid literally attacks obese people. And obese people also are at huge risk. I'm overweight and I was literally frightened during covid. Now I lift weights every day and work on my diet very hard. But we are literally ignoring the elephant (literally) in the room.

Hear, hear. One of the greatest failings of our "modern" healthcare system is that there's no plan to address this crisis. Obesity is the gateway to what seems like an infinite amount of health complications - not to mention the additional burden on the health care system itself when they get sick. I fully acknowledge that it's a difficult subject, it upsets people, and it's uncomfortable. The greatest healthcare adv…

> One of the greatest failings of our "modern" healthcare system

Healthcare has nothing to do with it. There is no medicine or medical treatment to cure obesity, it's a lifestyle issue

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#255

Post by wildrhythms »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #236
godelski wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and start walking everywhere instead of driving. This sounds nice until you actually look at most of America. Cities are designed around cars. I'm in a rather walkable city and the nearest grocery store is a mile away. That's not too bad, but other places I've lived it is 5+. Buses are bad (hour+ between pickups) or non-existent. It gets difficult to do all kinds of chores, visit the doctor or whatever. Even using…

You can walk/bike/bus to a store and then order uber back to carry all the bags.

Have you visited the U.S.? Suburban sprawl has made it a 1-2 hour walk one-way to a grocery store in many places (if you can walk there at all). In many places there isn't even a sidewalk.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#256

Post by wildrhythms »

diogenescynic wrote: post #10

I make a decent salary and so does my wife. We have two kids and we still don’t own a home. People I know who don’t work in tech are really struggling. There are multiple US cities without clean drinking water. It seems like the US is mostly in constant decline with a few elite city/states able to avoid the consequences. As a result, people eat junk food, go to the doctor less, have more stress, drive everywhere, no…

Exactly. It's not just the money cost of buying fresh, non-processed foods either; it's the time cost of going to the store for fresh ingredients, cooking, cleaning... A single person caring for children and working two jobs inevitably turns to the convenient fast food drive-thru as a result.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#257

Post by odshoifsdhfs »

stouset wrote: post #195
wsc981 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people might be offended by me asking this question, but did you get COVID vaccinations? And if so, which brand(s)?

Regardless of your opinion, the one bit of information provided by answering this question has little value other than to spark a pointless argument.

Not really and this is the problem.

My quality of life decreased after my booster shot. Had severe reaction and my athletic performance dropped quite a bit afterwards never going back to the baseline pre-vaccine. Also having more heart palpitations and a decrease on VO2max.

But apparently when I talk about this, I am either labelled anti-vaxx (even though I got the damn vaccine), a conspiracy crazy or people try to justify my issues with something else that magically coincided with the date I took the booster.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#258

Post by odshoifsdhfs »

aerophilic wrote: post #65
JoyfulTurkey wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, 20 kilos in less than 2 months seems like a heck of a lot. Any issues with gallstones? I lost a nice bit of weight at the start of the pandemic when I stopped drinking (primarily a beer drinker). It is really surprising how much of an effect it can have.

The rule I have seen, and have followed is to target 1-2 lbs (about 0.5-1kg) per week. Any more than this and you start having issues where your skin doesn’t shrink at that same rate, or your body having issues baselining to the new weight[0] Personally, while tough to keep that as an average weight, I was successful doing this, primarily by going to one meal a day, and limiting calories (especially carbohydrates). O…

As with all guidelines, this always depends on the starting point and personal data.

If you are on the heavier side and a heavy drinker and carb eater, going low carb/no alcohol you will lose easily 10 kilos in a month (mostly being water weight).

If you are a healthy weight and eating normally with a glass of wine here and there, 0.5-1kg is probably a good range (and probably around 70% of it being fat loss)

If you are lean, 0.25-0.5kg a week is a good goal (and probably 50% will be fat).

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#259

Post by zmgsabst »

mikeyouse wrote: post #162
zmgsabst wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true. But the difference between the COVID vaccines and seatbelts is the data — hence why you hear that argument about COVID vaccines, but not seatbelts. https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/thailand-study-of-young-a... https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/here-is-the-data-behind-a... https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/doctors-in-canada-are-dyi...

Counterpoint, Steve Kirsch is an absolute moron who has lost the plot. https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking/steve-ki...

The Thailand paper has been making the rounds among many people.

Eg, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ekTR0w2M9-U

Also, that link doesn’t address the data in those links. You seem to be making an ad hominem.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#260

Post by vandreas2 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #248
californical wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that making it a personal choice seems to be failing us. We’ve been telling people to do that for decades, and they’re not — make it a societal choice so that it’s individuals are automatically enrolled in a system that promotes their health rather than forcing them to sit in a car seat for hours per week

When you say "we've been telling people to do that for decades" I'm assuming you're referring to the accumulated scientific wisdom that says eating healthily and getting exercise is good for your health, and not the trillions of dollars spent advertising addictive sugar water, alchohol, cigarettes, sugar coated cereals for kids, subsidized beef and corn syrup and attacking every health recommendation as lies if it th…

Exactly this. Not sure how much of the scientific messaging reaches the lower socioeconomic subsets of society either, I don't think kids' obesity is because they 've tried everything to lose weight and can't help themselves or rather their parents don't really understand the intricacies of how processed food works. There's something that defies intuition about a 50g mars bar having the same calories as a 300g potato even if most people vaguely understand that 'sugar is bad for you' but can't really put it in perspective, what does that mean in practice? The dosage makes the poison.
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