Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US Government Bans Export of Nvidia A100 and H100 GPUs to China and Russia

sec.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 645 posts

Re: US Government Bans Export of Nvidia A100 and H100 GPUs to China and Russia

#181

Post by option »

obblekk wrote: post #146

This doesn't just ban A100s. It bans those and "any future NVIDIA integrated circuit achieving both peak performance and chip-to-chip I/O performance equal to or greater than thresholds that are roughly equivalent to the A100." It's a ceiling on the performance that can be exported. In an exponentially scaling industry, this is the equivalent of an announcement in advance of a complete ban on competitive products 2-3…

wouldn’t a better strategy be have china depend on those product but require a sorts of built-on remote control in them in case of a conflict.

Re: US Government Bans Export of Nvidia A100 and H100 GPUs to China and Russia

#182

Post by YetAnotherNick »

alphabetting wrote: post #121
modeless wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think TSMC will be able to fabricate and export chips at a significant fraction of full capacity during a war with China?

I'm doubt full capacity but I think there's no doubt the US will defend Taiwan with full force of military to protect those chips and this order is more evidence of that. They now seem to get how important AI is to future global order.

Protection against a nuclear power is not that easy. If US plans to escalate it with full power against China, chips would be the least of my worries, than earth being fit for life after the war.

Re: US Government Bans Export of Nvidia A100 and H100 GPUs to China and Russia

#183

Post by spywaregorilla »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #52

Does that mean the US is acknowledging that Taiwan isn't China?

Pelosi's visit was a sufficient statement, especially in light of their military bravado. China made a bluff, the US called it, and China backed down.

Re: US Government Bans Export of Nvidia A100 and H100 GPUs to China and Russia

#184

Post by kilroy123 »

olladecarne wrote: post #91
modeless wrote: post #84

I'm starting to think it's a good idea to stock up on all the electronics you think you might need for the next decade. Because when China finally invades Taiwan, the supply of electronic devices worldwide is going to instantly disappear. How many electronic devices do you own that don't have any part of their supply chain in China or Taiwan or adjacent countries? The COVID shortages we all saw were practically busin…

Lack of high end tech will be the least of your problems if China and the US get into a hot war.

Right, that's what I was thinking.

This would mean catastrophic economic damage. Likely, would be far worse than the great depression. We important so many goods from China.

Re: US Government Bans Export of Nvidia A100 and H100 GPUs to China and Russia

#185

Post by TheRealPomax »

samstave wrote: post #82
TheRealPomax wrote: post #52

Does that mean the US is acknowledging that Taiwan isn't China?

Maybe because the M2 is a TMSC made unit made in TW and there is no way Tim Apple is going to not be selling to the biggest market.. How is he going to make 5 Trillion in ShareHolder Value by 2025? - We don't need to "officially" recognize Taiwan when many congress folks invest heavily there. Don't unplug the circuit that feeds you. -- https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/442... Whit the the new d…

> We don't need to "officially" recognize Taiwan when many congress folks invest heavily there.

Fun fact about laws: yeah you do. You can only litigate the letter of the law, not the spirit. If the law says "you cannot export to China" and the fabs are in Taiwan, then either NVidia's breaking the law by default, or they're not and the US officially recognizes Taiwan as not being part of China.

Whether that's what they intentionally went for when they wrote this: preeeetty sure it wasn't, but they just created a potentially massive legal situation.

Re: US Government Bans Export of Nvidia A100 and H100 GPUs to China and Russia

#186

Post by jeffparsons »

Victerius wrote: post #78
alphabetting wrote: post #72

To me this is a pretty clear message that the US will defend Taiwan with full force.

Banning the export of sensitive technology is not exactly the equivalent to a MacArthurian full throated embrace of the nuclear arts to defend an ally. China's repeat statements about how it vows to bring Taiwan into the fold are like the gif of a truck about to crash from multiple angles that never actually crashes: https://c.tenor.com/cD8WqQ-ZGXcAAAAC/truck-crash.gif

> defend an ally

The USA would not merely be defending an ally; it would be defending a part of its supply chain that somehow, somewhere along the line, became essential to pretty much every moving part of the country.

Moving enough fab to the continental United States to make a meaningful difference could be done long-term as a matter of strategic policy, but you can't make a change like that fast enough to address the USA's _present day_ geopolitical concerns. For now, Taiwan is kinda important.

Re: US Government Bans Export of Nvidia A100 and H100 GPUs to China and Russia

#187

Post by mattwilsonn888 »

astrange wrote: post #110
kurofune wrote: post #89

>On July 27th, Nancy & Paul Pelosi sold all 25,000 of their shares of Nvidia, $NVDA. Today $NVDA was told to restrict chip sales in China & Russia by the US Government on August 26. $NVDA is down 20% since their initial sale, -5% in after hours today. https://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/156511407338962534...

It's unrelated, Nancy Pelosi doesn't even profit off her stock sales. Her broker is just churning her account to look busy. https://twitter.com/quantian1/status/1476589270454390787 Similarly Rand Paul, if he tried to insider trade, lost money too. https://twitter.com/quantian1/status/1425981488408010756 Remember, most of the time, the boring normal story is the accurate one.

What are you talking about? You don't need to profit to insider trade. Losing 5% is a lot different than losing 50%.

Re: US Government Bans Export of Nvidia A100 and H100 GPUs to China and Russia

#188

Post by foerbert »

option wrote: post #181
obblekk wrote: post #146

This doesn't just ban A100s. It bans those and "any future NVIDIA integrated circuit achieving both peak performance and chip-to-chip I/O performance equal to or greater than thresholds that are roughly equivalent to the A100." It's a ceiling on the performance that can be exported. In an exponentially scaling industry, this is the equivalent of an announcement in advance of a complete ban on competitive products 2-3…

wouldn’t a better strategy be have china depend on those product but require a sorts of built-on remote control in them in case of a conflict.

Only if you expect China to forgo their own development of these sorts of products if they are given access to them.

Re: US Government Bans Export of Nvidia A100 and H100 GPUs to China and Russia

#189

Post by fspeech »

karmasimida wrote: post #64
fabianhjr wrote: post #46

So AMD Radeon RX is about to gain an edge on enterprise / datacenter market in China.

Well, I think Chinese providers will not entrust in US technology moving forward. Who knows when next ban would come. I think this ban will result in worse off situtation for both countries. China is a huge market for Nvidia after all. While China will become ever more isolated in the landscape of AI/Graphics community, which is a big bad news for it apparently. China will create its own GPUs eventually, but probably…

This was recently revealed at Hot Chips: https://www.nextplatform.com/2022/08/25/china-launches-the-i...

Re: US Government Bans Export of Nvidia A100 and H100 GPUs to China and Russia

#190

Post by colechristensen »

nomel wrote: post #104
colechristensen wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charging companies for evading sanctions and export controls is a pretty regular thing. It’s not about single units crossing the borders but large numbers which are much harder to hide and investigation of such things isn’t that hard.

Could you describe how this works? What if a company in Kazakhstan buys them and then ships them to Russia? How would the US "charge" a Kazakhstan company? Is it AMD that would be charged? Would AMD be liable for every card they sold? How many levels of misdirection until they're liable? I know nothing about this.

It really depends on circumstances which are always complicated.

An example:

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/us-judge-rule...

ZTE, a Chinese company, was blacklisted for years and paid something like a billion dollars for evading US sanctions.

It is really quite hard to not have connections to the US economy. If you really don't want to do business with us, you probably want to bank with banks that have connections with us. If you don't play ball with our legal system, we'll go after your assets at your bank, and if your bank doesn't want to play ball we'll sanction them and completely cut them off from any bank connected to us. There is no foreign bank that is "too big to fail" if they don't comply with our courts, and really there aren't any that are going to stand behind somebody else's fraud.

Post reply on HN