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Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#111

Post by fsflover »

yunohn wrote: post #99
izzytcp wrote: post #3

Hi, German here. How about not storing any information at all? Nothing to give, problem solved. Just like Signal. I seriously don’t understand why people use Telegram instead of Signal. Any reason! The app doesn’t solve any privacy problem, default chats are unencrypted, keeps personal info. App should be dead already or turned into a dating app because it’s clearly not seriously privacy fucused.

> How about not storing any information at all? Acc to telegram: > Telegram may disclose IP addresses and phone numbers How do you propose this data is masked? You need a phone number to use Telegram (and Signal), and you need an internet connection, thus exposing your IP address. I’m not sure why you think Signal does not have this information.

Matrix won't have this information, if you have your own server.

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#113

Post by neverrroot »

formerly_proven wrote: post #82
neverrroot wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the surface you are correct, this is especially the painted picture by the mass media and at least partially by the government (who also sought banning Telegram entirely in Germany). If you go deeper, you get to see that also a lot of human rights activists and NGOs are using it. Have been using Telegram since 2015, and in the meantime, most of my IT buddies use it and/or Signal.

With the invasion of Ukraine it seems like 95 % of the information out of Ukraine flows through Telegram (I'm not a user myself but the watermark and screenshots of the app are everywhere). Telegram also has some ~700 million monthly active users - it seems unlikely to me that there are even 700 million alt-right people in the entire world.

It’s not and everyone knows it, including those arguing against it. The really painful thing is, Germany still has a right problem. They can be found everywhere, including in police, military, political system, media etc. Multiple scandals offer evidence, but the daily life also shows stuff not covered by this. But this situation and widespread knowledge of this is also used in order to intimidate the others, that are not on the right at all. And this is not only a reality in Germany, unfortunately.

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#114

Post by DownGoat »

upofadown wrote: post #81
izzytcp wrote: post #3

Hi, German here. How about not storing any information at all? Nothing to give, problem solved. Just like Signal. I seriously don’t understand why people use Telegram instead of Signal. Any reason! The app doesn’t solve any privacy problem, default chats are unencrypted, keeps personal info. App should be dead already or turned into a dating app because it’s clearly not seriously privacy fucused.

>How about not storing any information at all? That wouldn't work for groups. Abusers could then destroy the groups with impunity for the purpose of censorship. Telegram is mostly about groups. Telegram is often used for activism. Signal claims to not store data about who is talking to who. That doesn't mean that they don't. If they were, say, a secret subsidiary of the CIA they would act exactly as they are acting n…

To some degree you can trust them, as data request to Signal have been through the court systems which is public. You can actually look up and see what data they have turned over after receiving court orders to do so.

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#115

Post by tcfhgj »

izzytcp wrote: post #3

Hi, German here. How about not storing any information at all? Nothing to give, problem solved. Just like Signal. I seriously don’t understand why people use Telegram instead of Signal. Any reason! The app doesn’t solve any privacy problem, default chats are unencrypted, keeps personal info. App should be dead already or turned into a dating app because it’s clearly not seriously privacy fucused.

I don't get why anyone uses Signal.

Horrible UX compared to WhatsApp, no sync of messages between devices, walled garden like WhatsApp, you can't have your own custom client

only thing: not Facebook & open source

You can have all of that with a Matrix client (except good UX, that's unique to Telegram)

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#116

Post by bowsamic »

neverrroot wrote: post #78
bowsamic wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (one of a kind in Europe, very strict) This is wrong. The German COVID policy is not strict at all. There is a 5 day isolation if you test positive, and you usually have to wear a mask on public transport. That's literally it.

Compare it for the whole of 2022. Also still in Germany, some people can/will lose their job if they don’t take the jab. Now I’m not affected by this, but my sister was. She decided to move country instead of getting vaccinated again.

> Compare it for the whole of 2022

Why should I do that?

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#117

Post by smarx007 »

hef19898 wrote: post #102
smarx007 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's a management decision and not a technical limitation.

Strange, I have Signal on a de-googled Puxel 2 runnibg ClayxOS...

But I guess you have an original Signal APK installed, not an alternative client that connects to Signal servers.

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#118

Post by tcfhgj »

atemerev wrote: post #89

Telegram is not a privacy-focused messenger. It is not a messenger at all, it is a dialog-based development platform, like WeChat. Most of its value is in public channels and groups, and bots. It is dead simple to build a useful Telegram bot; good luck doing this on Signal. Wire and Threema are serious privacy-focused messengers. They have all things necessary for good privacy: full E2E, pseudonymous IDs not linked t…

> Wire and Threema are serious privacy-focused messengers. They have all things necessary for good privacy: full E2E, pseudonymous IDs not linked to phone numbers, multiple accounts, ephemeral accounts, side-channel authentication, etc.

Matrix offers all that, and bots and public channels

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#119

Post by Forbo »

bigfudge wrote: post #105
Forbo wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And keep and share all the information with authorities. Hilarious that you call it bullshit whilst spouting your own. https://signal.org/bigbrother/ Unless of course you have some documentation to back up what you're saying.

I love Signal, but in some jurisdictions government request for data can be accompanied by gagging orders with serious penalties for breach. I'm not sure that list can be considered complete.

Does the design of Signal's applications or server infrastructure change because of the jurisdiction? Does the information they gather or store change?

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#120

Post by hnbad »

archi42 wrote: post #88
hnbad wrote: post #2

Note that they didn't provide options for "with a warrant" and "without a warrant", they only provided options for "with a warrant but only for suspected terrorism" and "for any serious crime but without a warrant". I suspect some users would vote for "any serious crime with a warrant" but will now vote for option 1 because they still want a warrant.

I think this is very important: The poll is intended to be able to claim that their users want as little cooperation as possible. And giving the "((1+2)/2). any serious crime but WITH a warrant" option would have undermined that, so they manipulate the poll. At least that's what I'm reading into this. Picking option #2 was my personal "f..k y.." to them for this manipulation; not that it changes anything. (I really d…

That is my reading. They want users to pick option 1 as most users likely don't want them to cooperate WITHOUT a warrant and thus option 2 creates a false dichotomy.

It's worth noting that a lot of fringe extremists (but not necessarily terrorists) fled from WhatsApp to securer alternatives like Signal and Telegram, especially "COVID deniers" (which, to be clear, refers to a far-right political strategy). So blatantly ignoring warrants is probably good publicity for a vocal part of its userbase.

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