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Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#71

Post by bigbacaloa »

funnym0nk3y wrote: post #29
traspler wrote: post #4

Is there anything special going on in Germany atm to prompt this? I‘m slighlty confused why they would do such a poll…

Telegram is considered a platform for people, which do not respect the basic values of democracy like groups far right expressing xenophobia and groups which think (and express loudly) of the COVID measures as repression by some elite against the common citizen. Most of them whish for a autoritarian government. Groups which act against the constitution are observed by the Verfassungsschutz, an authority to protect th…

In Spain telegram is mainly used by people who self identify as far left ...

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#72

Post by BurningPenguin »

neverrroot wrote: post #7
traspler wrote: post #4

Is there anything special going on in Germany atm to prompt this? I‘m slighlty confused why they would do such a poll…

Yes, a lot of pressure from the leftist government. Many channels opposing the German Covid policy (one of a kind in Europe, very strict) are to be found in Telegram. As always, there is also some German right in Telegram. The government is officially after them, but the media/government has been painting all those opposing the Covid measures as right, so… it’s tricky.

> but the media/government has been painting all those opposing the Covid measures as right

Idk about you, but waving flags of the German Reich, following known Neo-Nazis and attending events of far-right organizations, while spreading lies and slogans that originate from right-wing conspiracy theorists, seems kinda right-wingy to me.

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#73

Post by wruza »

greatgib wrote: post #13

Sadly I think that it is the slippery slope for Telegram. Instead of the spirit of privacy first, they start to concede little by little for commercial interests. First it is just the IP and phone number. Then, it will be extended to contacts. Because, why not, that can be useful also for "terrorist investigations". Then it will be chat history,because it makes sense, the police has a warrant... And telegram is techn…

Do you really think that corruption uses court orders of fabricated terrorism cases as regular means to abuse the system? If that’s true, Europe is screwed up regardless of how a popular messenger handles your ip.

Anyway, “slippery slope” is an extrapolation and not an argument, cannot be used as such. You can naively extrapolate everything, e.g. I was too lazy to take out the trash today … and then I’ll try heroin. I couldn’t get a raise and switched jobs … and then I will be trafficking humans. I disagreed with my spouse … the divorce is imminent. I asked customers what they think of a complex issue … I will sell their laundry to everyone. This is all nonsense.

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#74

Post by _Algernon_ »

croes wrote: post #17
endless1234 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Is discord, reddit, hacker news e2ee? No, but they are still products people want to use.

Do you use discord, reddit, hacker news for private communication? BTW reddit and Hackernews are E2EE, it's just that one E is public.

What does that even mean?

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#75

Post by kaba0 »

greatgib wrote: post #13

Sadly I think that it is the slippery slope for Telegram. Instead of the spirit of privacy first, they start to concede little by little for commercial interests. First it is just the IP and phone number. Then, it will be extended to contacts. Because, why not, that can be useful also for "terrorist investigations". Then it will be chat history,because it makes sense, the police has a warrant... And telegram is techn…

Slippery slopes are a logical fallacy for a reason.

We live in a society, I don’t see how giving out basic information to law enforcement with a court order is somehow a fault of the company - first of all, your mobile service provider knows orders of magnitude more info on you (and quite likely sells it as well), second of all, your employer will do the same without a second thought as well as your bank, etc.

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#78

Post by neverrroot »

bowsamic wrote: post #44
neverrroot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a lot of pressure from the leftist government. Many channels opposing the German Covid policy (one of a kind in Europe, very strict) are to be found in Telegram. As always, there is also some German right in Telegram. The government is officially after them, but the media/government has been painting all those opposing the Covid measures as right, so… it’s tricky.

> (one of a kind in Europe, very strict) This is wrong. The German COVID policy is not strict at all. There is a 5 day isolation if you test positive, and you usually have to wear a mask on public transport. That's literally it.

Compare it for the whole of 2022. Also still in Germany, some people can/will lose their job if they don’t take the jab. Now I’m not affected by this, but my sister was. She decided to move country instead of getting vaccinated again.

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#79

Post by [deleted] »

afiori wrote: post #67
greatgib wrote: post #13

Sadly I think that it is the slippery slope for Telegram. Instead of the spirit of privacy first, they start to concede little by little for commercial interests. First it is just the IP and phone number. Then, it will be extended to contacts. Because, why not, that can be useful also for "terrorist investigations". Then it will be chat history,because it makes sense, the police has a warrant... And telegram is techn…

In part I am curious about how these requests are made; I would expect that the 2 most common kind of request are from law enforcement following public channels/groups, from individual reports of private conversations, and from previous investigations. That is I imagine requests would be in the shape of "here is a username give us IP and phone number". It is also relevant to know whether German courts can order to co…

[deleted]

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#80

Post by neverrroot »

BurningPenguin wrote: post #72
neverrroot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a lot of pressure from the leftist government. Many channels opposing the German Covid policy (one of a kind in Europe, very strict) are to be found in Telegram. As always, there is also some German right in Telegram. The government is officially after them, but the media/government has been painting all those opposing the Covid measures as right, so… it’s tricky.

> but the media/government has been painting all those opposing the Covid measures as right Idk about you, but waving flags of the German Reich, following known Neo-Nazis and attending events of far-right organizations, while spreading lies and slogans that originate from right-wing conspiracy theorists, seems kinda right-wingy to me.

Never claim there are no such people. But to try to paint a picture as e.g. most of mainstream media did and some still do, that only such kind of people protest the measures etc. is not correct.
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