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Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

news.ycombinator.com

101–110 of 234 posts

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that even mean?

That your message is transferred from your computer to the recipient, HN's servers, encrypted. At no point should anyone in the middle be able to read your message. After arrival, HN then publishes it on a public forum for everyone to see.

Ah yes, the Zoom definition of E2EE! /s

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-...

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Signal forbids alternate clients Which might be due to their E2E encryption?!?

No, it's a management decision and not a technical limitation.

Strange, I have Signal on a de-googled Puxel 2 runnibg ClayxOS...

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#103
post #73

Sadly I think that it is the slippery slope for Telegram. Instead of the spirit of privacy first, they start to concede little by little for commercial interests. First it is just the IP and phone number. Then, it will be extended to contacts. Because, why not, that can be useful also for "terrorist investigations". Then it will be chat history,because it makes sense, the police has a warrant... And telegram is techn…

Do you really think that corruption uses court orders of fabricated terrorism cases as regular means to abuse the system? If that’s true, Europe is screwed up regardless of how a popular messenger handles your ip. Anyway, “slippery slope” is an extrapolation and not an argument, cannot be used as such. You can naively extrapolate everything, e.g. I was too lazy to take out the trash today … and then I’ll try heroin.…

If a system can be abused, it will be abused. We have seen this play out in America and people are still not learning from these events. There are other ways to investigate suspects without sacrificing principals of privacy and spoiling it for the majority of 99.5% innocent human beings.

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#104
post #4

Is there anything special going on in Germany atm to prompt this? I‘m slighlty confused why they would do such a poll…

Telegram is considered a platform for people, which do not respect the basic values of democracy like groups far right expressing xenophobia and groups which think (and express loudly) of the COVID measures as repression by some elite against the common citizen. Most of them whish for a autoritarian government. Groups which act against the constitution are observed by the Verfassungsschutz, an authority to protect th…

People who think that the COVID measures were repressive wish for an authoritarian government? Get your propaganda right.

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#105
post #93
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to remind that Signal is bu//sh*t messenger that ask you for your phone number. And keep and share all the information with authorities. Since it is a US based company, and it is what US based companies do. If you want to make a protected application, don't tie it to any real world data. That is very easy.

> And keep and share all the information with authorities. Hilarious that you call it bullshit whilst spouting your own. https://signal.org/bigbrother/ Unless of course you have some documentation to back up what you're saying.

I love Signal, but in some jurisdictions government request for data can be accompanied by gagging orders with serious penalties for breach. I'm not sure that list can be considered complete.

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#107
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That your message is transferred from your computer to the recipient, HN's servers, encrypted. At no point should anyone in the middle be able to read your message. After arrival, HN then publishes it on a public forum for everyone to see.

Ah yes, the Zoom definition of E2EE! /s https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-...

Kind of, but as they aren't lying about allowing private conversations not really. More saying https is end to end encrypted, but what one end does with that data isn't necessarily private.

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#108
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that even mean?

Telegram is just the middleman between sender and receiver. When you write on HN, the receiver is HN. That message is transported via E2E https encryption so it's secure. But because HN displays all messages publicly you can read them after they were received. This doesn't change the fact that the transport as such is E2E.

There is a distinction between TLS and E2EE. E2EE is client to client encryption.

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's a management decision and not a technical limitation.

Strange, I have Signal on a de-googled Puxel 2 runnibg ClayxOS...

How can I install Signal on my Qubes OS or on Pinephone, if I don't have any Google or Apple phones?

Re: Telegram is asking German users when to share information with law enforcement

#110
post #75

Sadly I think that it is the slippery slope for Telegram. Instead of the spirit of privacy first, they start to concede little by little for commercial interests. First it is just the IP and phone number. Then, it will be extended to contacts. Because, why not, that can be useful also for "terrorist investigations". Then it will be chat history,because it makes sense, the police has a warrant... And telegram is techn…

Slippery slopes are a logical fallacy for a reason. We live in a society, I don’t see how giving out basic information to law enforcement with a court order is somehow a fault of the company - first of all, your mobile service provider knows orders of magnitude more info on you (and quite likely sells it as well), second of all, your employer will do the same without a second thought as well as your bank, etc.

Slippery slope arguments should not be regarded as logical arguments. They are predictions. Calling it a logical fallacy is a strawman argument because in reality, slippery slopes have been observed.
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