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What Does Israel Fear from This ‘Terrorist’? (2021)

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Re: What Does Israel Fear from This ‘Terrorist’? (2021)

#51
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post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using Zionist as a pejorative is a clear indication of personal bias, but you do you. Here's a good history of this conflict[1]. Worth a read. Labeling something you disagree with as propaganda, when there is so much documentary evidence supporting the thing you label thusly, is not a good argumentation strategy. The arabs who were refugees were not expelled. They were not re-admitted. As the article notes, the failu…

I'm using zionist as an accurate description of the viewpoint the propaganda advances, no value judgement attached or implied, but you do you. I know I won't change your mind (or your victim complex) over the internet, but for what it's worth I truly hope you find the truth (or Al Haq), and I'll leave it at that.

May you get the enlightenment you deserve. Victim complex ... [1][2][3][4]

[1] https://www.justice.gov/crs/highlights/2020-hate-crimes-stat... [2] https://www.jns.org/fbi-report-reinforces-trend-that-america... [3] https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/antisemitism-jew... [4] https://www.jns.org/opinion/anti-semitism-the-numbers-dont-l...

Re: What Does Israel Fear from This ‘Terrorist’? (2021)

#52
post #32
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Europe"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't more than half of Europe fight, kill, and die to stop the dictator that was killing Jews? But you'd rather the whole continent feels guilty, instead of proud of their sacrifices?

I look at what transpired during the Evian conference[1]. Yeah, I really don't have much sympathy for europeans not wanting to feel guilty. Sins of the father, sure. But they continue the hostile-to-jews policies and actions to this date. So yeah, if they feel guilty and ashamed of what their fore bearers did ... mebbe ... just mebbe ... they should rethink their behavior of joining with avowed jew haters to persecut…

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Re: What Does Israel Fear from This ‘Terrorist’? (2021)

#53
post #52
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I look at what transpired during the Evian conference[1]. Yeah, I really don't have much sympathy for europeans not wanting to feel guilty. Sins of the father, sure. But they continue the hostile-to-jews policies and actions to this date. So yeah, if they feel guilty and ashamed of what their fore bearers did ... mebbe ... just mebbe ... they should rethink their behavior of joining with avowed jew haters to persecut…

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Re: What Does Israel Fear from This ‘Terrorist’? (2021)

#55
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding me? > to people who were ordered to flee their homes by their leaders, and then denied re-entry by the new political entity.. Whats happening in Palestine is people "ordered to leave their homes" and then because of "political entity" can't return??? If you want to say the removal of rights to return to your own land, you house getting destroyed and losing all your belongings, children, Innocent peopl…

Wow ... just so much to unpack here. So much. Arabs left at the behest of their leadership, to return when the arab armies were victorious in the 1948 war. The arabs lost. And they lost all the subsequent wars. In 1967 they massed armies on the borders, readying attacks. They were beaten. Again. Very badly. 1973. Same thing. Etc. Innocent people getting killed every day ... you mean the random attacks in cities? Wher…

Let's not confuse Zionist ideology with Judaism. One is a peaceful religion whose followers understand commandment #8 (no stealing (e.g. land, property, etc.)).

And the other is a Fascist (even Einstein called the Irgun massacre 240 people (of Deir Yassin) a Fascist act of Menachem Begin (see his NYT letter December 4, 1948)), apartheid, militarized, racist government.

I think your main narrative is false and, after reading (at least) three major human rights reports (Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, and B'Tselem) in the last 2 years, many now regard Israel as practicing apartheid in the occupied territories of the West Bank and Gaza.

This wasn't (and isn't) a war of equals: I think if you read history carefully (Ilan Pappe, Benny Thomas, etc) this is an colonial settler occupying force inflicting apartheid on indigenous non-Jews. All Native people have a right to resist occupation and apartheid. See the Battle of Algiers recently? This is how occupied people resist their colonial overlords. At some point, one must stop calling any criticism of Israel human rights abuses antisemitism. There is indeed antisemitism but advocating for human rights of non-Jews in a "democratic" state is not antisemitic.

In 1948, over 750,000 non-Jews were ethnically cleansed from their homes and villages. My parents left Haifa in May 1948 as the city was ethnically cleansed. They didn't leave voluntarily. The Haganah were rolling barrels full of explosives into Arab neighborhoods to terrorize the local residents. It was also a psychological terror campaign: what the Haganah called a "Jewish Whispering campaign". In other words, they advertised the Deir Yassin massacre over loudspeakers (in Arabic) to warn the non-Jews about what was going to happen to them if they stayed. See the Israeli assessment of "migration" from June 30, 1948 at https://www.haaretz.co.il/st/inter/Heng/1948.pdf.

Over 500 villages were burned and/or bulldozed to prevent the return of those expelled. Over 300,000 non-Jews were expelled before Israel was declared a state (May 14, 1948). It was only after this initial wave of migration that the neighboring armies began conflict to prevent the further expulsion of Native non-Jews. After Israel's creation, another 400,000 Indigenous non-Jews were expelled from their towns and villages

(From Migration of Eretz Yisrael Arabs between December 1, 1947 and June 1, 1948 url is above)

"In reviewing the factors that affected migration, we list the factors that had a definitive effect on population migration. Other factors, localized and smaller scale, are listed in the special reviews of migration movement in each district. The factors, in order of importance, are: 1. Direct Jewish hostile actions against Arab communities. 2. Impact of our hostile actions against communities neighboring where migrants lived (here – particularly – the fall of large neighboring communities). 3. Actions taken by the Dissidents [Irgun, Lehi]. 4. Orders and directives issued by Arab institutions and gangs. 5. Jewish Whispering operations [psychological warfare] intended to drive Arabs to flee. 6. Evacuation ultimatums. 7. Fear of Jewish retaliation upon a major Arab attack on Jews. 8. The appearance of gangs and foreign fighters near the village. 9. Fear of an Arab invasion and its consequences (mostly near the borders). 10. Arab villages isolated within purely Jewish areas. 11. Various local factors and general fear of what was to come."

So the non-Jews did not appear to leave voluntarily. When people flee for their lives (and are not allowed to return to their homes (because they have been destroyed), we call this ethnic cleansing. It's a crime against humanity.

It isn't that complicated: Zionists want the land but there are people already living on it. What do you do with the non-Jews already there? Israel massacred some of them and drove the rest out to neighboring countries (Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and into the West Bank and Gaza). The exiled are still there. Just visit a Palestinian refugee camp and you can meet them. And why are they angry? They want to return to their destroyed villages. They want their homes back. They want their possessions returned.

Re: What Does Israel Fear from This ‘Terrorist’? (2021)

#56
post #53
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Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Please don't perpetuate hellish flamewars on HN. It's exactly what this site is not for—regardless of how wrong some people are or you feel they are.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: What Does Israel Fear from This ‘Terrorist’? (2021)

#57
post #54
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Please don't perpetuate hellish flamewars on HN. It's exactly what this site is not for—regardless of how wrong some people are or you feel they are.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: What Does Israel Fear from This ‘Terrorist’? (2021)

#58

The entire state is built on illegality and thugs. Israel is an illegal occupation started by the British government, that turned into an Apartheid occupation later on. They still want the world to believe they are Democratic, while they lack a single thing of a real democracy. Their propaganda machine is what kept it alive. They turned antisemitism to basically being anti-israel and anti-occupation, pretending to be…

Please don't use HN for political/ideological/national/racial/religious battle. It leads to hellish flamewars. We don't want those here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: What Does Israel Fear from This ‘Terrorist’? (2021)

#59

The entire state is built on illegality and thugs. Israel is an illegal occupation started by the British government, that turned into an Apartheid occupation later on. They still want the world to believe they are Democratic, while they lack a single thing of a real democracy. Their propaganda machine is what kept it alive. They turned antisemitism to basically being anti-israel and anti-occupation, pretending to be…

Well Europe has just finished killing six million Jews. The entire region wants to kill them all. By all means let’s blame the victims for defending themselves.

Please don't use HN for political/ideological/national/racial/religious battle. It leads to hellish flamewars. We don't want those here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: What Does Israel Fear from This ‘Terrorist’? (2021)

#60
post #25
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The ancient "state" of Israel has been in that land for north of 3000 years With a ~2500 year gap between the fall of the Iron Age kingdoms of Israel and Judah and the 1948 modern state.

And continuous presence of jews in that land for the entire time. Your point?

yes, under the name of Palestinian Jews.
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