Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's out of date. They added a very competent HAL and driver model yonks ago: https://source.android.com/docs/core/architecture/hal-types The big lift here was scrapping the Linux driver model which was at the root of most of the pain.
So now everyone can update their phones on the day of a new Android release?
Why I quit using SwiftUI
231–240 of 257 posts
Re: Why I quit using SwiftUI
#232Any UI code running on a modern CPU should take close to 0ms to update, no matter how many buttons, toggles, sliders and shadows. For the rendering part, it depends, I'd say it should take between 0.5 and 2ms with many layers, a lot or transparency and not much care for optimization.
Based on the author's description, it sounds like the real cost here was from way over-diffing a set of models that weren't very efficiently bound to the UI. This is a very common source of bugs in all declarative frameworks.
In SwiftUI, the consequences can be particularly bad, because there are a couple somewhat innocent-sounding ways of injecting dependencies into your UI that actually invalidate the whole thing on any value's change and cause major updates (including, if a custom "Representable" that uses its own GPU tools is not implemented carefully, potentially reallocating all kinds of buffers and drawing tools).
This is all stuff that you learn how to deal with as you get used to the framework and learn its more advanced tools, but adapting to this part is not really something there's a lot of documentation for.
Re: Why I quit using SwiftUI
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you think might be good counter examples of this not being the case? Maybe Instagram, Discord... I was going to say Robinhood, but the free trading might have been the real differentiator?
I think both Instagram and Discord is quite bad on the UX-front on iOS. Strangely enough Microsoft’s Outlook is quite decent while it still looks a bit distinct. It is not generally true of google’s iOS apps that I assume started using Flutter and it feels from time to time (mostly not-smooth scrolling)
Re: Why I quit using SwiftUI
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, text layout is not trivial. But computers are incredibly fast when dealing with small amount of data. I don't see why all of text layout calculations could not be done at maximum speed with everything in L1. Probably with quite a few branch miss-prediction, but still. The amount of work you can achieve in 1ms on a modern CPU is astonishing.
My intuition is that there are probably a bunch of O(N N N) complexity algorithms in typesetting for things like ligatures, and that's where the time goes... but I haven't written a shaping engine.
And to be fair, more than 90% of those symbols are very likely to be plain old ASCII...
Re: Why I quit using SwiftUI
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
Personally, I don't think the OS should ever allow an app to hijack the physical volume buttons or other hardware buttons on a phone. That seems like an avenue for abuse. (Tip: you can tap the screen on the right side to go to the next page.)
Personally, I think that my phone should be convenient for me to use. I'm well aware of different ways to swipe pages. The reason why the hardware volume buttons are so convenient for reading is because you just put your thumb on the volume/page down button, and you no longer have to move it at all - only press down slightly every now and then. It's much more ergonomic for long-term reading than having to raise the t…
You can imagine that someone might create malware or otherwise hostile app that plays a loud/embarrassing sound and hijacks your volume buttons.
Having to lift a finger to turn a page seems like a really small problem in comparison to that one.
Smartphones are general purpose devices and have to make tradeoffs like this all the time. They can't just greenlight every useful function that every type of app might want. IMO if you want an e-reader, get an e-reader.
For example: Let's say I'm a private detective. It might be nice for there to be an app that records audio and video at all times without any visual indication of my phone doing so. However, having that kind of OS level permission available to apps on an app store is probably a bad idea. I'll need to go out and buy a dedicated recording device.
Sure, we can argue about where the line gets drawn. If you like Android for allowing apps to modify hardware buttons, fine. But, I would prefer a device where physical buttons perform consistent functions. A middle ground might be some kind of buttons dedicated toward custom or app functions – but, to me, why bother when the entire screen is a customizable button?
Re: Why I quit using SwiftUI
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
I view it a different way: macOS and many of Apple's built-in apps/utilities are, at the very least, a less bad option compared to many others. OS utilities like Image Capture, Preview, Apple's screenshot utilities, Spotlight, Quick Look, and quite a few others have been basically "killer apps" that make me want to use macOS over Windows for decades now. Even basic areas like system settings have been a point of frus…
The only one of those apps I used when I was on mac for a few years was iMovie (actually my wife used it, I didn't use any of those apps). Finder on the other hand...
Re: Why I quit using SwiftUI
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you want icons to be able to overlap each other, or be different distances from each other, or what? I'm trying to figure out what exactly you're trying to accomplish. What would be the benefit of totally arbitrary, down-to-the-pixel placement ability?
No, not talking about overlapping. Just talking about being able to grab an icon and position it anywhere I want on the screen (possibly snapped to a grid). Right now, icons have to be aligned in rows anchored in the top left corner, so that whenever you insert a new one, all the ones after that get pushed right or down, messing up your entire layout. We've had this ability on desktops since Windows 3 thirty years ag…
Re: Why I quit using SwiftUI
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
I remember its existence but never used it. It was also not popular in the USA. Motorola dominated, and if you looked at their offerings and their syncing software it was incredible how utterly incompetent it was. For example, their contacts didn't have addresses... I mean, WTF? And the syncing software (to Outlook, for example) just straight-up didn't work. I had a Motorola phone with 32MB of memory, and it couldn't…
Symbian wasn't originally from Nokia, rather from Psion, it was born as EPOC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPOC_(operating_system) Symbian C++ had a couple of issues, namely several restrictions of accomodating C++ for a microkernel, before the days of C++98, and organically growing from there. So there were several idioms and restrictions on how the language could be used, and the toolchain went through several ite…
Re: Why I quit using SwiftUI
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
We've been hearing this for years now, though. And we've seen SwiftUI takedowns on here before, a year or more ago, and even then SwiftUI wasn't exactly new. Meanwhile, my team has built an entire cross-platform desktop app in Qt with QML, which has been around for years and works refreshingly well. You're telling us that Apple, starting fresh and with several years under its belt now, still hasn't gotten its shit to…
> Remember the "ground-up rewrite" of Finder we were promised several major OS releases ago? No? I've never heard of this. Do you have any citation for such a promise?
Wired: https://www.wired.com/2008/10/rumor-apple-s-finder-app-to-ge...
Ars Tecnica: https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=99890&sta...
Also a quick search found this guy referring to it in 2009:
"I have always wished that I could change both the font and spacing between both sections and items. I was really hoping this would be possible with the rewrite of finder in SL 10.6."
https://macmost.com/forum/resizing-the-sidebar-font-in-finde...
Re: Why I quit using SwiftUI
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
We've been hearing this for years now, though. And we've seen SwiftUI takedowns on here before, a year or more ago, and even then SwiftUI wasn't exactly new. Meanwhile, my team has built an entire cross-platform desktop app in Qt with QML, which has been around for years and works refreshingly well. You're telling us that Apple, starting fresh and with several years under its belt now, still hasn't gotten its shit to…
What “word”? What “ground-up rewrite”? Do you really believe everything you read on the internet?
WHOOPS