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Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

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Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#41

Post by szx »

tokenadult wrote: post #37
WayneDB wrote: post #17

I learned to meditate by reading and listening to Krishnamurti (among many others). "Meditation is not different from daily life" he says. "It can be done all day." It's exactly like being in the zone that you get into when you code, play video games, run, exercise, etc. You can do it better and without needing a crutch activity by consciously shaping your thought/energy patterns; by constantly focus your mind on pur…

by constantly focus your mind on pure observance and acceptance of all that exists in the current moment I'd like to follow up, please, on what these words mean. Does "acceptance of all that exists in the current moment" mean that demonstrators at Tahrir Square should be accepting of a dictatorial government? I'm curious about this issue, because I lived for several years in a predominantly Buddhist country that was…

Theoretically, the goal is simply to avoid the knee jerk reaction. Accept the reality as what it is, then figure out what you want to (and can) do about it - rather than succumb to your animal instincts.

As for why these Buddhists put up with the dictatorship, you'd have to ask them... Keep in mind different people interpret Buddhism (and meditation) very differently.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#42

Post by epistasis »

tokenadult wrote: post #40

After reading this press release carefully, I notice that the paper mentioned in the press release was submitted to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, which is essentially a publication that accepts most submissions from members of the "club," that is the National Academy. I wonder what additional steps would have to be taken to produce a paper that could get published in a more stringently reviewed…

It's a mistake to assume that this was not peer reviewed. The PNAS has two tracks, stringent peer review and direct submission from members of the National Academy of Sciences. Every article is labelled as to whether it was reviewed or not, and the vast majority of PNAS articles I see are peer reviewed. Those articles that go through peer-review are typically of extremely high quality and impact; it takes a very strong paper to make it through peer review at PNAS, typically.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#43

Post by jessriedel »

cpeterso wrote: post #33
jessriedel wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what evolutionary purpose do you think mind-wandering serves? We clearly tend to think about various current problems of ours (whether technical, social, or other) when our mind wanders; it's not an accident.

Perhaps a wandering mind was good enough for early hunter-gathers and only now do modern humans have specialized roles that require extreme focus? A hunter might benefit from a "wider" sense of awareness, whereas recent studies show that multitasking is counterproductive for mental tasks that require extreme focus.

I think we might be discussing two different phenomenon. It seems pretty obvious to me that the ability to focus is important. What's not clear is whether the ability to wander is also important (although I suspect it is). The claim of the article is not just that meditators are able to focus better when they try, it's that the natural, default mode for their brain is changed to reduce wandering.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#44

Post by jessriedel »

xavoy wrote: post #29
jessriedel wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what evolutionary purpose do you think mind-wandering serves? We clearly tend to think about various current problems of ours (whether technical, social, or other) when our mind wanders; it's not an accident.

I'd say we're half evolved. We have this facility and don't know how to properly control it. It's a byproduct of some other facility (the ability to communicate).

I don't see any link between (1) communication and (2) my mind wandering away from my immediate surroundings and settling on an outstanding problem I have. My mind could (and occasionally does) wander over a million other things in my brain (e.g. past memories, imagining the future, or the feel of my clothes on my body) but predominantly focuses on outstanding problems, so I tend to think this is a highly purposeful adaptation.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#45

Post by jessriedel »

cmer wrote: post #11

I'm getting increasingly interested in meditation, mainly because it seems like it could make me use my brain better. I have no clue where to start though. Anyone has info to share? I'm a total noob to this. Thanks!

I'd like to piggy back on this comment and ask if anyone knows a good introduction to meditation from a western/scientific/rational point of view. I'm open to the idea that meditation could help me use my brain more effectively, but I'm extremely wary of the religious/spiritual angle (even if the origins of meditiation are religious/spiritual.)

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#46

Post by tygorius »

It would be nice to see the article itself. I would be curious to see how/if they controlled for selection bias. That is, the summary indicates they took images of the brains of novices and experienced meditators. It does not indicate that they took images tracking changes in brain activity as people progressed from novice to experienced.

I'm not saying that it's implausible that neuroplasticity effects can be found in the default mode network, just that those with the strongest symptoms might not easily (or ever) get to the "experienced" stage and the implied relief.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#48

Post by cmer »

xavoy wrote: post #28
cmer wrote: post #11

I'm getting increasingly interested in meditation, mainly because it seems like it could make me use my brain better. I have no clue where to start though. Anyone has info to share? I'm a total noob to this. Thanks!

Sit in a comfortable position, if possible on a cushion, on the floor, with three solid points of contact (your butt and your knees). Relax. Pay special attention to your shoulders, neck and throat. Straighten your back, let your stomach and butt hang out. Close your eyes 3/4 and let them go out of focus. Take a deep breath in and let it go. Then breath in again, counting 'one' to yourself, breath out and count 'two'…

Wow thanks so much for the information! This als0 goes to everybody who responded to this thread.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#50

Post by xavoy »

jessriedel wrote: post #45
cmer wrote: post #11

I'm getting increasingly interested in meditation, mainly because it seems like it could make me use my brain better. I have no clue where to start though. Anyone has info to share? I'm a total noob to this. Thanks!

I'd like to piggy back on this comment and ask if anyone knows a good introduction to meditation from a western/scientific/rational point of view. I'm open to the idea that meditation could help me use my brain more effectively, but I'm extremely wary of the religious/spiritual angle (even if the origins of meditiation are religious/spiritual.)

Western Zen is very western/scientific/rational. Most of the teachers in the lineage I belong to are also psychologists, psychotherapists or counselors (but your teacher is NOT your therapist). Stephen Bachelor has been a Tibetan AND a Zen monk, but is now neither. He wrote a book called "Buddhism Without Beliefs" which might suit you.

Note though that it is almost impossible to separate meditation as it relates to your mind, and meditation as it relates to your bodily actions. When you start to understand the way your mind works, and how everything fits together, you would have to be pretty ignorant to not alter your actions accordingly. Indeed, using your brain 'more effectively' can only happen by applying what you learn.

(IE, there is no state that you 'attain' and from then on you are 'more effective'. Meditation is a 'practice' and so you must practice it, you don't attain anything at all)

edit: correcting misspelled book title. Should be "Buddhism Without Beliefs" not "Buddhist Without Beliefs".

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