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The silent majority in software

vadimkravcenko.com

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Re: The silent majority in software

#81

Post by camgunz »

jongjong wrote: post #52

I used to be part of the silent majority of software developers but that changed after I became disillusioned about the direction of the industry. Nowadays, I'm basically forced to use certain inefficient tools in order to get a job because a bunch of highly vocal junior devs who got their way. It's a bit like in politics; when times are good for the majority, most normal people aren't interested in politics; they ha…

While I admit to enjoying some of the debate aerobics on HN, this is the prime reason I try and give my voice to some of the discussion here. I kind of view it similarly to voting: you have to make your opinions known.

It's had the pleasant side effect of also educating me on quite a lot--mixing in with people with different experiences and values has enriched my life, so I think it's a win-win. I just try and be careful to not get too wound up: that's the failure case haha (I'm not saying constantly check your blood pressure while using HN, but I'm not not saying it).

Re: The silent majority in software

#82

Post by [deleted] »

donatj wrote: post #73
pavlov wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great salespeople aren’t expected to run lemonade stands after work. “You’re so good at sales, how come you don’t want to sell something in the evening? There must be something you’re itching to sell to your neighbors.” Software engineers seem unique among professionals that you’re expected to maintain a hobbyist body of work that’s also your professional calling card.

I think that applies to a lot of creative industries. Certainly when I was looking to be a designer some 20 years ago you were expected to maintain a portfolio. I don’t even mean in that sense though, I just don’t understand having a skill like that and not using it for fun. For what it’s worth, the best salespeople I know have almost no purely home life and are taking calls and making deals all hours of the day.

[deleted]

Re: The silent majority in software

#83

Post by Karrot_Kream »

donatj wrote: post #59

> Sometimes I’ve seen Pull Requests from empty accounts with a brief explanation of what was implemented. They just submit bug fixes, no drama. Over half my coworkers including some very talented developers have no public repos. As someone with almost 200 that always blows my mind. How do you work in software for years and not find some little hole you want to fill. That’s not a judgment call, that’s an honest questi…

Just because you write code doesn't mean it ends up in a public place. I have lots of friends who like writing web scrapers and their code never sees the light of day. I write hundreds of programs and scripts for my house (media sorting programs, programs to help my friends and I choose restaurants, MILP programs for optimizing game actions, Bayesian models, etc, etc.) and only a small fraction end up online.

Re: The silent majority in software

#84

Post by spacechild1 »

bndr wrote: post #29
evan_ wrote: post #8

> The “silent majority” was used by President Richard Nixon during his presidency and his campaign against the Vietnam war. He spoke to the people who were not actively voicing their opinions and who were overshadowed by the vocal few who were supporting the war. This is a shocking misunderstanding of history. The “silent majority” Nixon spoke of were folks opposed to anti-war protests . Nixon intentionally prolonged…

Fixed it. Thank you :) Just took the quote directly from Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_majority#:~:text=The%20...

I think you completely misread that article...

Re: The silent majority in software

#85

Post by mcv »

coldtea wrote: post #61
evan_ wrote: post #8

> The “silent majority” was used by President Richard Nixon during his presidency and his campaign against the Vietnam war. He spoke to the people who were not actively voicing their opinions and who were overshadowed by the vocal few who were supporting the war. This is a shocking misunderstanding of history. The “silent majority” Nixon spoke of were folks opposed to anti-war protests . Nixon intentionally prolonged…

> If you ever find yourself about to say that Nixon did something that a non-evil person would do, you’d better triple check your facts. Actually Nixon did several things "a non-evil person would do", Nixon as evil is a carricature. Like giving back Native American lands, or green-lighting the first major environmental protection legislation, or to get talking with China. And of course the Vietnam war itself was esca…

He very nearly signed a Basic Income law. I originally read that the Democrats voted against it because it was too low, but more recently read that someone convinced Nixon that a Basic Income would have terrible consequences based on some faulty historical information about the Speenhamland system, which turned Nixon against BI. But it was close; he could have made history in a much more positive way than what we currently remember him for.

Re: The silent majority in software

#86

Post by rl3 »

evan_ wrote: post #8

> The “silent majority” was used by President Richard Nixon during his presidency and his campaign against the Vietnam war. He spoke to the people who were not actively voicing their opinions and who were overshadowed by the vocal few who were supporting the war. This is a shocking misunderstanding of history. The “silent majority” Nixon spoke of were folks opposed to anti-war protests . Nixon intentionally prolonged…

>If you ever find yourself about to say that Nixon did something that a non-evil person would do, you’d better triple check your facts.

I mean, he did give us the EPA. What the ulterior motive was, I'm unsure.

Re: The silent majority in software

#87

Post by detaro »

gernb wrote: post #80
veltas wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will say that in my own experience, if you go against the zeitgeist on HN you can often get by as long as you're sensitive/respectful and intelligent on the issue. There are people who downvote things they disagree with, but I think most people on here downvote people who sound unconstructive or argumentative. And at the end of the day, if you're respectful etc, who cares about being downvoted or having people argu…

you're supposed to downvote things you disagree with on HN. Here's Dang pointing to PG saying that downvoting for disagreeing is what you're supposed to do https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314

"It's ok to do that" != "you are supposed to do that", and behavior of people varies accordingly.

Re: The silent majority in software

#88

Post by Karrot_Kream »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #58
actually_a_dog wrote: post #24

Try criticizing capitalism or "free markets" sometime.

I've found you can get away with criticizing almost anything on HN, if you do it as an open discussion rather than from a closed position of just espousing doctrine. It's one of the great strengths of this community.

+1 though some threads/topics/crowds are more downvote happy than others. I still find the sheer breath of opinion on this site to be fantastic.

Re: The silent majority in software

#89

Post by gernb »

tehCorner wrote: post #78
donatj wrote: post #59

> Sometimes I’ve seen Pull Requests from empty accounts with a brief explanation of what was implemented. They just submit bug fixes, no drama. Over half my coworkers including some very talented developers have no public repos. As someone with almost 200 that always blows my mind. How do you work in software for years and not find some little hole you want to fill. That’s not a judgment call, that’s an honest questi…

Because there are a great bunch of developers who just code for work and want to maximize leisure/family time (including me). Sometimes I also do that _fun script_ you were thinking about over the week, or play with some random programming language, but I let those cases be the exception not the norm.

There's nothing wrong with either path.

For me, I like coding, just like I like eating and I like socializing. The fact that I eat and socialize at work doesn't mean I try to avoid eating and socializing outside of work. Similarly the fact that I use a computer at work and or code at work doesn't mean I try to avoid using a computer and or code outside of work.

My working on whatever my company wants me to work on is not the same as me pursuing a hobby even if they overlap in the activities required to do both.

Also, some people just really enjoy it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32593135

Re: The silent majority in software

#90

Post by barnabee »

donatj wrote: post #59

> Sometimes I’ve seen Pull Requests from empty accounts with a brief explanation of what was implemented. They just submit bug fixes, no drama. Over half my coworkers including some very talented developers have no public repos. As someone with almost 200 that always blows my mind. How do you work in software for years and not find some little hole you want to fill. That’s not a judgment call, that’s an honest questi…

Most of the code I ever wrote in my spare time never made it to a public repo. Usually because I either didn't finish it (I enjoy experimenting and prototyping the most), it was incredibly specific and hardcoded to my personal environment, or I just couldn't be bothered to go make sure I removed all the hardcoded secrets, implement environment variables instead, etc. I'm slowly trying to do better (and I did at least start a company that publishes pretty much everything it does).

It's surprising (and awesome!) to me how much open source repos have become a part of many people's CV/resumé.

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